kung Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Fortunately whatever that shit was wore off and I've found my senses. Truth be told there was an amazing number of great people at the show last night. As is the case you always run into people from all sorts of stages, elementary, high school, university, friends, peers and then the rest of the skid bags who populate this board. What I was trying to get at in my mush letter is that the people we connect with in this scene and don't, the sub cliques and what not, are often the people whose character has some distinction irregardless of the music altogether. My position is somewhat problematized by the fact that I have this nasty tendancy to speak my mind and not pander to the boardies whom my girlfriend affectionately calls my 'imaginary friends'. So I have to get shit on a few times at the shows because some tool or another has got his nutsack twisted cause he has no concept of Irony whatsoever and piss poor cultural reference levels to boot. Which is what I'm trying to get to, this whole group can seem like one big extended clan or family but yet is composed of all these smaller clans and family units. The 'can't we all just get along' mentality didn't work for Rodney and doesn't work for us- except of course in the presence of sick music and copious drugs. Unfortunately as much as I prize being straight edge I think I realized last night that going to shows and not taking drugs is like pole vaulting without the pole; it's possible but you better have some long ass legs or a ten foot vertical. Trying to make like this scene doesn't pulsate at it's very marrow to the dope vibration train is pointless. I don't know how much that takes away from or adds to the music. Again it's amazing that we have the chance to get together for these family reunions and like any family there's some acrimony. Last night I was afforded the opportunity not only to see the Allman Bros. but to see mentors of mine, people I've mentored, childhood friends, neighbours and partners in crime- all of whom would never be in the same place at the same time. Drugs or no drugs I was and am touched by how classy, intelligent and just plain together some of you are. Then of course there's some major fucking cock wads and last night it was most definitely Greg our brother Esau 13. Greeting him with a friendly hello on the way in he practically belted me for calling him- now let me get this right a 'profiteering goof' online. Now first of all this is a gross paraphrase of a complex line of reasoning and exchanges but I'm fairly certain it's not an expression I've ever used as it sounds sort of tacky (although someone will probably turn up the post). I told Greg it's a concert and I wasn't going to get into it mainly because he was scaring my concert date with his conflicting medications and jailhouse anger. Once the mushiness hit peak height I extended an apology to which Greg managed to hold on to his hatred and practically wallop me again (the mental picture would be of 10,000 people going off the hook and one prick of a man with a Ween sized load of hate- which I actually kind of admired in a twisted way). Then more veiled threats of violence on the way out of the venue and more tension and fortunately then we all got to go home. Now I'm all for a good scrap but let's figure out what the fucking dilemma is first. I'm not even going to get into what I said or didn't say except to say that you'll find that I always have the scene's best interest at heart. Someone mentioned on the board recently that they wondered what it was I even like about this scene which reminded me that this dude is probably 20 yrs. old and rolling out the first stages of Trust Fund Tour 2003. You could see all of those fresh faced, naive as shit fuckers, the Matzafarians with their beanies, the Rosedale Rastas, and we all were/are them. Then some time after you've seen every band you ever wanted to and met half of them you find you want something more. You want to get to that state without drugs, you want to become involved with promoting to improve the spectrum, making music yourself or whatever. I think it's called growth. Those are all positive aspects of the scene with the obvious negatives being craven drug use and the generally furtive and sketchy behaviour that tends to accompany it. Then there's the whole overarching belief that we all have to be singing from the same 'Jam Is Good/ Jam Is Great' hymn book. I don't make money doing this, am not currently promoting, have nothing to market so it's basically taking a stand and then getting shit on next time you run into people. Differences of opinion are fine, the internet tending to exacerbate miscommunications and making it hard to gauge intentions, sarcasm, irony and the like especially for the feeble minded. But invariably we can all see eye to eye when next we meet or agree to disagree. Which is why I found this interlude so reprehensible. At the same time we can't all just get along, we all have vested interests and notions of altruism although I would argue there's no such thing as a selfless act. But don't we all have a wealth of shit going on, our own secret lives and struggles, that far outweigh some petty message board bitterness? Doesn't the fellow in question here have more positive places he could put his anger or hopefully lack of it to improve health? The more I learn about some of you the more I am impressed with the 'straight' jobs you keep, with your worldly ideas and fresh faced optimism. Likewise the more I learn about others the more I realize that if it weren't for this scene I would never give this or that person the time of day in the outside world. Call me a cynic if that means I only like to hang around with class acts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 'imaginary friends' That's pretty good. It would feel that way if it weren't for the shows and festivals. I look forward to all of these things, not just for the music, but for the reunions, new meetings and general uber-social events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 quote:Then of course there's some major fucking cock wads and last night it was most definitely Greg our brother Esau 13. Hey dont say shit to someone you can't back up. I think someone else on this board fell to that same accident with Greg. The internet is real, and the people you speak to are real, and if you can't handle that, stop speaking. quote: I told Greg it's a concert and I wasn't going to get into it mainly because he was scaring my concert date with his conflicting medications and jailhouse anger. I know greg can hold his medications...which is why you AREN'T in the hospital...his jailhouse anger was a result of you preschool taste. quote: Now I'm all for a good scrap but let's figure out what the fucking dilemma is first. THats probably not your brightest point in the post. I dont think the scap would be very good anyways, i think it takes two to scap. quote: Then some time after you've seen every band you ever wanted to and met half of them you find you want something more. You want to get to that state without drugs, you want to become involved with promoting to improve the spectrum, making music yourself or whatever. I think it's called growth. NOW that i have to agree with. FULLY and COMPLETELY. quote: Call me a cynic if that means I only like to hang around with class acts. and none of it has rubbed off on you eh? Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 God, kung, I just don't get it. You seem to be reaching out with one hand and threatening a punch with the other. You have so many unique perspectives, salient points, a real contribution to make but it's filtered through this kind of twisted impulse to downgrade people's experiences for them, and an occasional elitist attitude. I'm thinking about these references to the "feeble minded" and so on. I'm not sure what kind of reaction you expect from the people you go after on-line (Greg being just one example here) but I would think of all people, you'd be the last to expect a warm handshake and a pat on the back. That would be hypocritical, wouldn't it? I have seen people get really upset with your accusations and generalizations. I don't mean that they want to fight you, I mean honest-to-God hurt feelings. All those "imaginary friends" have real feelings and a basic impulse to protect their own integrity. I'm not going after you here but you brought it up and I'm sure you'd be disappointed to not get a response, so this is mine, for better or for worse. Hope I'm not too "feeble minded" for you to consider anything I have to say. I do believe, I think, that you have what you feel to be the best interests of the "scene" at heart. My take on it is, you want people to question the music they listen to, why they like it, why they bond together to enjoy it. To question to what extent personal drug trips affect the general conception of the music. The integrity of the musicians, at all levels. To be critical thinkers. I empathize with this wish - I wish it could be true for myself - but if I could have one wish for you, it would be to let go and try not to get so frustrated. You've made a few posts lately that seem to suggest you consider scrapping or fighting a legitimate option to these quarrels. I'll let you decide whether that's classy or not. Trying to make like this scene doesn't pulsate at it's very marrow to the dope vibration train is pointless. Now *that* was a great line. Take it easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JstSmkd1 Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Drama Queens, all of ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberHippie Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Can't we all just get along? I know it's not quite the response you were looking for. All I can say is be careful what you type. It may be fun to stir up shit on a message board with your imaginary friends. But sounds to me like you should take last night as an example that these are real people on here, and people don't forget personal attacks even if they take place in a virtual reality. If your looking for a real life punch in the eye I'd say your well on your way. Again, I'm not trying to attack you, just voicing my perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Luke, Check your private messages buddy. All I have to say in my defence I guess is that I harbour no hate and there was not a single threat uttered or even thought.As for the scrap thing, I have no desire to fight anyone or you over shit like this. Yeah I was outta line at the gate there, I should have just left what I had to say until an more appropiate time and setting.That was uncalled for and I apologise to you and your concert date. There is a few things left out in your post and a few more that have been grossly exagerated,but name callin'? Anyway thats all I have to say about this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basher Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Sounds to me that this is more of a private matter between a few folks, and not a public matter to be debated on the board. My 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Screw you Basherman................... "name callin'?" This is where I have to come in. I seem to recall a thread started on here a couple of weeks ago, about Hyprocrisy, or f@cking it. It all centered on this issue of name callin', so I find your post, Kung, rather hyprocritical Actually, lets just say its ironic................... Screw you Basherman............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted July 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 I think it's important that we don't let ego or embarassment skew our perceptions. I get consistently shit on and mocked, sometimes quite cleverly by this entire board and still keep my head high. A ninja never carries a grudge when humiliated or denounced. A ninja possess a compassionate heart and pursues peace and harmony. MarcO I really respect that take on things- in part because I trust the source in this case based on other things you've said. Which is part of the issue- we trust people when we generally concur with the sound or sense of what they're saying. In person we can sense body language, nuances, gesticulations- all are lacking in this medium and the medium is the message. The problem in this scenario is this incident really affected mine and my friends evening and was totally needless for a number of reasons. First of all whatever was said or not said on the message board- get the fuck over it. You do all realize that rarely if ever does any one agree with me on this board but rarely if ever does anyone outright say I'm not speaking the truth. Storytelling is lying but sometimes the gonzo is the only way to get at the warped path of truth. I'll ask you do you think it's harder to take a stand when everyone's with you or everyone's against you? Moreover I'm fairly certain I never called this funguy a 'profiteering goof' and that's a gross generalization. I said that oftentimes someone who has a financial stake in a culture (promoter, manager, artist) is not the best person to make an objective call. Period. Sure alot of other things have been said but the last thing I ever heard Esau say on this score was that he has no problems with me. Someone else can find the post but it's up here somewhere. So did he suddenly have a change of heart, had I further pissed him off since then or was he just shitting on me needlessly. The body language was definitely I'm going to pummel you. So be it- if I've earned a crack in the face fine, I'm not looking for a fist fight. I'm looking to be a part of a community that doesn't circle the wagons on people who are actually calling it like it is. Trust me when I tell you that Americans could give two shits about our entire 'scene' with the exception of Nero piquing people's interest of late. Maybe with a more supportive, constructively critical, mindful and imaginative culture we could change that trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basher Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 quote: Originally posted by Booche: Screw you Basherman................... Kiss my ass you fucking tool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Low Roller Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Love him or hate him, I think Kung is probably one of the more articulate and skilled writers on this board. His opinions may differ with others on this board, but you have to respect his steadfastness in expressing his opinion and then defending it. You also cannot deny his passion for "the scene". I recently had a university buddy visit me from Hamilton. I took him to Babylon for the Ferriswheeler show, and he was amazed with the crowd. His exact words were something to the effect "I can't believe that the crowd here is so easy going. No pretentious attitudes and no trouble at all. Everybody just gets along. How did you find this crowd?" We got something good here folks. Let's keep it going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRage Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Nice Low Roller, I was watching the post and staing out of it but a couple of things caught my eye. The Americans I know who are on the jam scene and know of Canada love that we have a scene here and love teh scene here because it is much less forced. We have our posers, but they mainly grow into it and which of us wasn't a poser when we started. We have a nice thing going here in Ontario and it's always best when there are no expectations. By this I mean, don't expect to be loved and welcome just because you like the same music and dress with similar style. Don't expect your views to be the same as the rest of the kids on the board, at the shows and in the lots. Lastly, don't expect people to be perfect or even close to perfect. If you expect any of this, YOU WILL BE DISAPPOINTED. Just do your thing, cross paths with the rest of us when you do, and have a good time. The rest of us will as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Freak Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Kung-your posts are getting old. Do you not have anything better to do? You think sooo highly of yourself-I can't get through any of your post without rolling my eyes and truthfully I can't get through any of your posts-period. You bore me to death. You can reply or not 'cause as of now, you are on my ignore list-I won't see it anyway. Nothing but DRAMA. P.S. I appologize for any spelling or gramatical errors-I know how stupid you think everyone besides yourself is. I am proud to say I am just a regular person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 quote: Kung-your posts are getting old. Do you not have anything better to do? You think sooo highly of yourself-I can't get through any of your post without rolling my eyes and truthfully I can't get through any of your posts-period. You bore me to death. You can reply or not 'cause as of now, you are on my ignore list-I won't see it anyway. Nothing but DRAMA. P.S. I appologize for any spelling or gramatical errors-I know how stupid you think everyone besides yourself is. I am proud to say I am just a regular person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chertlanders Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 It is completely logical to understand why people are angry. There is a natural connection between cause and effect. I do however urge people to not resort to violence. In one way, having an enemy is very bad. It disturbs our mental peace and destroys some of our good things. But if we look at it from another angle, only an enemy gives us the opportunity for tolerance. Since we do not know the majority of the 5 billion human beings on earth, therefore the majority of people do not give us the opportunity to show tolerance of patience either. Only those people whom we know and who create problems for us really provide us with a good opportunity to practice tolerance and patients. Dalai Lama We need to provide Kung with continuous positive reinforcement. Non-violence must remain a norm within our society: an understood rule for accepted and expected “proper” behaviour. Perhaps I overestimate the extent to which others share my beliefs. Then again maybe not. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comebacqueen Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 well Kung and everyone....family and we know it. Kung I think you have a lovely way with words and I would agree that people take things out of context because we are not in person to experience body language and eye contact and voice influctions. everything. I did see you last night and smiled when this happened although I obviously didn't make it over to make it happen. All good...cause that's why I'm here now...to hug you and hug esau and everyone...cause that's me and lalala.... Last night I had an extremely wonderful time. Everyone around me was a great friend and this made me feel so rockin' good! So thanks to everyone for being a part of a good thing. Do what's right for you and all will be good!! Much Love!!! Hey you like the avatar!!! Remember boys!!!! Haha!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogatthestation Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 I agree with Low Roller in that I think kung is a good writer, the problem I have is that he often comes across as talking at us instead of talking to us. I think that often times he spends too much time trying to find an audience that like his writing style and will read his book when he finally writes instead of just getting his point across. I know as a writer that you want to leave some room for interpretation from the reader, but he seems to take it as a personal insult when people "misconstrue" what it is he is trying to say. I think kung could and should be an important contributer to the scene but too often he comes across as pretentious and self-serving. As far as this particular post is concerned, I think he is using this personal attack an Esau to attack this site in general. He seems to be saying that what goes on here is bullshit and meaningless and phony and he is using this one isolated incident to prove his point. He seems to think that because there seems to be a lack of meaningful debate on this site that we are fooling ourselves into believing that everything is peachy keen in the scene when it is not. I think kung is missing the point of what jambands.ca is about. Its funny, I was watching a biography on "Happy Days" last night and I think the point that was being made on that show applies here. Happy Days was viewed as a waste of time by many critics because they watched sitcoms like MASH, All in The Family and The Mary Tyler Moore Show that tackled real social issues and saw Happy Days as meaningless because it refused to tackle the issues. But that was the point. As Gary Marshell said, he wanted to create a show that the audience could watch and enjoy and relax to so that they were ready to think about the issues that were going on on these other shows. I have notice that on this site most posts happen during the work week, while people are at work. It allows them to escape for awhile and enjoy a moment with people that have similar tastes. As a result I think this site performs a very important function, in that it brings people together in an enjoyable, relaxed way. As far as kung's statement: quote: I'm looking to be a part of a community that doesn't circle the wagons on people who are actually calling it like it is.I am sorry buddy but you are not telling it like it is. You are expressing an opinion, nothing more and nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted July 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 It sounds like this one could be quite nicely put to bed. I think what makes it a public rather than private matter is that we pride ourselves on peacefulness as a culture, in which case antagonism is unexpected, and that Esau and I have a high profile and perhaps with the visibility comes something to lose namely Face. UK ravers used to say 'party your face off' which always reminded me of Steal Your Face, lose your likeness, lose your semblance. But then we invest resources in Saving Face which can be costly. Likewise we all make investments in our time usually without any substantial financial profit and oftentimes loss. So we all have a stake and we all have an investment and something to lose. I feel I lose that investment when I can't see eye to eye with all my peers which is maybe a daunting undertaking. Peace is a daunting undertaking. Krishnamurti said that: quote: 'to have peace, we must be peaceful. To live peacefully means not to create antagonism. Peace is not an ideal. To me, an ideal is merely an escape, an avoidance, a contradiction of what is. An ideal prevents direct action upon what is. But to have peace, we will have to love, we will have to begin, not to live an ideal life, but to see things as they are and act upon them, transform them.' That said great music, great writing, great Art oftentimes comes from a place of great quiet but just as often great strife. Which leads me to our friend Super Freak. You speak the truth. I do think too highly of myself. We all have different gifts and mine is writing and dancing for that matter, I can't create music of my own except in life. Virginia Woolf said all interesting people are egotists which is not necessarily a good thing. I think your comment reflects a sentiment a number of people would say here here to including Secondtube in this case. But what is it you contribute sister? Where's the feedback from you, where's the engaging sentiments, most importantly when are you exposing yourself and laying yourself bare before these huddled masses? History is made by the protagonists and oftentimes the antagonists, both of which contain agony. The people 'pointing out the obvious' not so much. A wise man named Aaron Freeman said: quote: She's got the hippy smell, got patchouli oil on the brain, got the Grateful Dead posters hanging up in the house everywhere, she smokes the clove cigarettes she says 'I wish I lived in the sixties cause those were really neat times' well I have a thing for you you know you wouldn't want to be alive in the sixties cause there was a lot of shit happening and you probably would a you know your hippy little ass probably woulda gotten killed or something you god damned shit face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRage Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 Jesus fucking Christ. That, IMO, was a load of shit Kung. I should stay out of it cause I don't know you, but Jesus, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 I'm going to go home and have one of these: White Russian - 1 1/2 oz Vodka - 3/4 oz Kahlua - 3/4 oz Light Cream or Milk Directions/Comments: Mix the vodka and kahlua together then float the cream on top. Add ice if desired. and then stare into the wall for a while. Or maybe listen to the latest Scofield cd. Maybe watch "High Fidelity" with my girlfriend. Probably have some Clam Chowder for dinner, it's cooled off a little bit. Maybe I'll phone cyberhippie, maybe not. Gotta get a hold of secondtube. Have an early night, get refreshed for the weekend. Sounds nice. Yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 Hey kung, I was actually really hoping to meet you last night. I was actually talking to Esau before all this took place, I think, and I was seriously going to get him to introduce us. I do think that a chunk of this is between you guys, so just to take things in a different direction based on one of your points... quote: Trust me when I tell you that Americans could give two shits about our entire 'scene' with the exception of Nero piquing people's interest of late. Maybe with a more supportive, constructively critical, mindful and imaginative culture we could change that trend.Two words: SO WHAT? Much of the greatest and most important music in my life, nobody in the States has ever heard of. (Max Webster? Who the hell is HE?!?) If we like it, why isn't that good enough? Are the Hip a bad band 'cus the States don't love 'em like we do? Are the Barenaked Ladies better now that they're big American stars? I know a lot of your points are around the stuff MarcO and others identified as your sincere desire to make people think critically and make it a better scene and whatnot, but why do we always have to look for external verification from our Southern neighbors that what we think is good, is? Peace, Mr. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 Yeah, I'm with you Mr. Musicface. Max Webster rocks. Too bad about all that "Featuring Kim Mitchell" stuff. Ah, well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermontdave Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 I've never met you Kung, but I always enjoy reading your posts. I agree with Lowroller and others when it comes to your talent for putting thoughts to words. Sometimes, however, your penchant for criticism, and or, generalization is a little over the top. quote: Originally posted by kung: Trust me when I tell you that Americans could give two shits about our entire 'scene' with the exception of Nero piquing people's interest of late. Maybe with a more supportive, constructively critical, mindful and imaginative culture we could change that trend. The people I do know on this board ARE supportive, constructively critical etc., and, as one who lives in the lower 48, I can tell you with certainty that all the various bands that I've been introduced to in the past few years from Canada, do get people who hear it to give at least two shits (at least around here). Anyway, keep on keepin on. p.s. I'm gonna kick Dr. Hux's ass next time I see him. Kerry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JstSmkd1 Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 quote: We all have different gifts and mine is writing and dancing for that matter, I can't create music of my own except in life. My gift is dancing too! Did you guys see me gettin down last night!! Gitty Up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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