Voted Off The Island (Kung Ejected From Hillside)

[gentlemonkey]

" FAAAAAIRLY.... ORIGINAAALL... Faaairly. Originaall, DDDUUUUUDE!!!!"

Wasn't that a hit single for, 'the Odds'?

!

[zero]

[color:blue] SHARKS!!!

[zero]

That means stop biting my shit. That means start writing your shit. Kid.

[Douglas]

I wouldn't feel too good to be around some with a fake gun, unless it was bright yellow/orange/blue...especially since I have no idea how else to differentiate between fake/real guns.

Not sure how I'd react though...at the least I'd be quite weary.

Sorry for everyone that had a bad experience with this.

Luke - I've been crushed by you in the past, but more importantly I've experienced how honest and gentle you are.

[guelphstudent]

Thank you, kitkat, for addressing some of my points. I appreciate your taking the time to understand what I am saying. I really do. But, it seems that I have gotten in over my head here and as much as I do not mean for this to drag out any more, I have to make a couple of points. Ones that I offer to improve the local music scene, as well as a final question for the community here.

I’m about as laissez faire as it gets (as much as my foray into this world would probably contradict that). And I’m quite able to see the humour in a lot of this, but here’s my basic tenet – your right to have fun stops when you start intentionally ruining any chance that I might have to do the same. The key word is “intentionally†– and it is a dicey one to defend, admittedly. But, every action has consequences. As socially responsible individuals we should be aware of the consequences of our actions for others, and I would just assume/hope that good people would naturally want to minimize the negative consequences of their actions on others. Drugs and alcohol are no excuse.

… trashing a well known member of this community is not the best way to make friends … Trashing people online is cowardly.

Oh believe me, I have trashed LUKE (the actual person) to his face and told him to f*ck off, but you know as much as I do, it doesn’t work, he could care less - it just seems to inspire him. Ive seen him at shows for over three years now. Anyone who attends shows in this area with any frequency knows who LUKE is – he’s famous. And similarly, at first, he was rude, but unlike you, kitkat, I have not felt any need to tame the beast. Given then that there’s no convincing LUKE … this virtual world is the only venue where ZERO (the crafted virtual character) might actually listen. So, into cyberspace I ventured with my spirited response. LUKE is wholly incapable of empathy, ZERO is (sometimes) capable of responding in writing on point. And it does seem that some of this discussion has allowed ZERO to understand that some of LUKE’s behaviour was wrong.

Do you wish everyone followed social etiquette in every given situation?

Of course not, but we are not talking about “social etiquette†here. We are talking about intentionally negative behaviour, with apparent disregard for the safety, enjoyment and feelings of others. Is any of it worthy of criminal charges? Of course not. Is any of it a serious buzzkill for many people around? Yes.

Have you attended Hillside, kitkat? It is not a club show- in fact, it is the furthest thing from it. Yes, much of what LUKE does at club shows is idiotic, and yes, as offensive as I personally find his hitting on my friends while his girlfriend looks on, knocking over beers, etc. it’s par for the course (albeit, extreme) in that type of a venue – but, his behaviour in clubs is not my issue. Hillside is not that type of a venue. It is full of families, kids, students, seniors, etc, and is a very relaxed and community-oriented event. People bring chairs and blankets and set up for a fun day of music and fun. So, please understand the context of the event, and understand the actual behaviour in that context, and why his “victimâ€-post prompted me to write my “step the f*ck back, buddy†response. It’s much more than toting around a toy gun. It’s pissing in the woods on a path where people walk. It’s walking in front of a seated crowd in a tent during the middle of an afternoon show to grab a couple of MINORS out of the front row to take over to the side to smoke a joint – in full view of everyone. It’s barging around and pushing people out of the way to get up front – to the stage, the beer line, chicken roti, whatever. It’s wrecklessly tossing, and dropping, a frisbee such that it hit 3 different strangers (one in the head) trying to watch a musical performance in a sweltering tent on a Saturday afternoon. Yes, much of this behaviour would not be considered inappropriate in a bar or at a club show, but in this context, it clearly was, and it wasn’t appreciated by a lot of people. Did he inspire some bands to play louder, faster, harder? Yes, Im sure he did. Did he also ‘inspire’ a few people in the audience to get up and leave in disgust? Yes, he did. To say his behaviour was a buzzkill is an understatement. Did we follow him around to observe his actions all weekend? No, but anyone there would also tell you, one could not help but see him. It was like there was three of him there. He was everywhere.

What happened at Hillside is quite simply, bad luck ...

I disagree. It has nothing to do with “bad luckâ€. It has everything to do with behaviour that was deemed unacceptable by those running the event. To my knowledge, no-one has ever been kicked out of Hillside for being an a$$hole before (other than those selling drugs and they were arrested). So, obviously, LUKE’s behaviour was wrong. At least ZERO has recognized that LUKE should not have brought the gun into the event.

… and a great story.

See, that’s where you completely lose me. This may be a “great story†to you and others here in this virtual community, but you presumambly weren’t subjected to the actual behaviour (and observing it from 30feet away is not being subjected to it - getting hit in the head is being subjected to it). And as such, perhaps I have seriously miscalculated my approach here, and I am fighting an uphill battle. This is a virtual community and I would wager than most of you interact more with virtual ZERO than with actual LUKE. Yes, I can full see how people are amused by ZERO’s writing and his bizarre anecdotes. ZERO is a clever writer, and some of his lines are very funny (10/10 for the ‘doodling unicorns in a hemp notebook’ ) and many of his words are quite provocative. But, LUKE is a very real, and very offensive person.

why do we defend zero? … Luke knows this, the first time I met him he was a real prick to me

Implicitly, you seem to be agreeing with my point here. You defend ZERO – the character. And you acknowledge that LUKE is a prick to people.

Why am I bothering with all of this? I really don’t know. Perhaps Hillside was the last straw, and ZERO’s victim-post was the spark that set my fingers ablaze. He put a serious buzzkill on several sets for me and my friends, and some others around us. And I felt a need to make that known. Or perhaps, I just want LUKE to understand that he does not have to behave like a prick in real life and then write up a “vignette†in cyberspace. (Or, maybe thats IS his whole deal?) Dance like a madman, scream as loud as you want, LUKE. I have joined you in the past – and I may join you again in the future. But be aware that you often go too far, and you ruin things for others. Call me naïve, but I really don’t think you have that right. It sure would make shows more enjoyable, for everyone, especially in the local music scene.

So, I guess my question to this community is: Is it ok for someone to act like an a$$hole and ruin other people's fun time so that he can tell his friends about it afterwards? If the general consensus is yes, then I will go away.

[ollie]

Hey gs, my beef with you is that your first post on this message board containted disparaging remarks about the mentally ill. Your follow-up posts have been much more reasonable. Why did you feel it necessary to be so insensitive in your initial post? What do you think that says about you to us? I think that's where most of the negative reaction is coming from. On the level I find most of the responses in this thread are in agreement with you.

[guelphstudent]

Why did you feel it necessary to be so insensitive in your initial post?

I apologized for that almost immediately. I was wrong - I was unaware of certain things. You are quite right, Ollie. Some of what I wrote in my initial response was insensitive, and regrettable. As were many of the others' responses to my writings - some nasty things were said about me too.

Will you answer my question?

[Birdy]

gs, you can't control how people act. and while i certainly wouldn't have acted the way zero acted, i really can't fathom how some of his actions ie, smoking joints with minors, hitting on your friends, frizbees in the head, pissing on a path, can be deemed so 'offensive' by you to the point where you would publicly berate him.

i don't know.. perhaps it's how i deal with things, but the last thing i would do would be to go on a public message board, as even though it is a virtual community, there exists real human beings behind each and everyone of these avatars, people who know him aside from being that jackass at a show.

i suppose i just don't understand your intentions by posting all of this hate on the site? everyone who attends shows has eyes of their own to witness an asshole, and minds of their own to judge his actions and to deem him an asshole in the first place. i don't like to form an opinion of a person until i meet them.. then and only then will i form my own personal judgement. i'd say if you have a problem with the guy, take it out with him.. not a whole shit load of strangers that you don't know.

[Deeps]

GS,

Can't you just ignore the guy?

Dunno it seems that the guy was there for 3 days...2.5 and you've sited some events that when tallied comprise about 30minutes to and hour.

I've been annoyed by Luke...I move on pretty quick and don't seem to pay it mind. That being said I have met many who can't deal with it, and stay annoyed...tough spot for them (you).

As for Hillside being full of the elderly and families. Who cares?...it's not all about holding hands and family fun for people who go there and they can have quite the opposite experience and be in the right as far as I'm concerned.

You don't book a band name Holy Fuck if you're primarily worried about that aspect...nor do you let C'mon on stage with their spitting madness.

I witnessed an act scream obsenities as he cut his plugged in guitar in half witha hand saw. People were offended I thought it brilliant.

Fuck lawn chairs. The youth aint got shit on mainstream radio so if there is a reason to smoke joints and be generally youthful at a music fest that doesn't have TheEdge associated with it, I say take it and suck all you can out it.

Festivals need instigators and incident for them to have an edge, it's not like he jumped on stage......this year.

Dunno GS....I'm battling you on this because so much of Guelph is hyper-focussed on political correctness and social control...this town is getting pretty tired pretty quick because of the shoe gazing that attitude is breeding.

So much talk about how Guelph is so mucically gifted and noone moves at shows...why? Because it's not encouraged to be exuberant....

I dunno I'm just talking...maybe you have some thoughts in this?

[Davey Boy 2.0]

i think it's your lack of really being able to think through your posts that have put me off, gs.

"...as much as I do not mean for this to drag out any more..."

come.on.

"...right to have fun stops when you start intentionally ruining any chance that I might have to do the same."

puh-leeze!

so his doing all these things that you dont approve of means that he's ruining any chance of you having fun? that's a huuuuuuge stretch.

The sad thing is that you probably have some genuine points to make but they're lost in the fact that you're repulsed by our mentally challenged imaginary friend and you're overstating how much he put you and your friends out. Yes he can be a lout and a fool etc; etc; but let's get real here

All in all a C- effort

[afro poppa]

So much talk about how Guelph is so mucically gifted and noone moves at shows...why?

Yea what the hell is up with that? Although I have been to a few shows where the dancing was steller, but I find at most if not all shows I am either dancing alone (which is totally cool with me, more space to get down) or someone must start dancing right in the middle of the floor for anyone else to want to dance. A perfect example of this was at Xavier Rudd at Mem Hall. I was dancing through the aisles for the first couple of songs while EVERYONE was sitting down. Crazy. For freakin Rudd!! And then all of a sudden someone went to the front and she started dancing, prompting everyone to realise it was cool to get up to the front and rock out!

I just don't get people who either too cool to dance, or too cool to reveal that they may actually enjoy the music. I say DANCE LIKE NO ONES WATCHING!

[Deeps]

All in all a C- effort

At least you passed GS.

Good show.

I find it ironic that you stopped the enjoyment of so many who would have liked to rip into Luke themselves, because you did it witht he same vigour Luke shakes his man-teets with.

Hope you keep posting GS...you're mouthy.

Deeps

[Birdy]

Fuck lawn chairs.

AMEN!

[Davey Boy 2.0]

Fuck lawn chairs.

AMEN!

seconded

[guelphstudent]

perhaps I'm just secretly in love with him ...

a C- ? damn, i was shooting for a solid B. oh well, who wants to pick a fight? remember, i can lift trucks! grrrrrr, LOL

[greasyfizeek]

Though I'm sure this may not broker the argument, I will weigh in and try to provide some balance since I know neither Zero or GS.

GS - I do think it's inappropriate to ruin your fun time. You are right in identifying that there is a time and a place for a higher degree of debaucherous and outlandish bevaviour. Hillside is certainly NOT one of those places. But I think this guy Zero gets off somewhat on being the "different" guy, or the most fucked up (shrooms, toy gun, jumping on stage) in a setting like Hillside where that is unexpected. If everyone was going nuts, Zero's identity might be lost in the shuffle. Drugs came into play, and only he knows how aware he was of his actions. Is he doing this to tell a "story?" To be the "character" in his own story? I think to a certain degree yes. His willingness to challenge social mores come out in this role of crazy-dancing, drug-taking, boozing music-writer guy.

He likes "knowing" or being "acquaintances" (I use both terms loosely) with musicians he admires, the part he plays in their shows, and being a part of the local scene in his own way. His taste is pretty good, and he seeks out new music before others. His quest to inspire the apathetic concert-goer and the "vibe" of a show is admirable. If we all stepped it up a notch, particularly in the indie-rock scene, Toronto would be less Toronto and more New York. But obviously Zero takes this way too far, and causes far more distress and angst amongst the masses than he can control.

It's shitty either way. I empathize with you being pissed, and I feel for this dude who keeps trying to take a more active role in the live show setting, but in the end gets arrested. Seems this was a question of context, time and place, and all of us weighing in don't really know what happened except what has been written so far.

I'm with the other folk - ignore it the best you can. This may be one of things you can't necessarily change, but a situation you can adapt to with discussions like this.

[Booche]

"Is it ok for someone to act like an a$$hole and ruin other people's fun time so that he can tell his friends about it afterwards?"

Not that I am in agreement as to what did or did not go down, but to simply answer your question.....no....it's not ok.

This is how I handle those situations:

[Davey Boy 2.0]

Booche is telling the truth, I've seen him brandish yellow cards at festies

...mostly to perplexed [pseudo-]hippies and crusty custies

Edited August 3, 2006 by Guest
focusin

[Calamity Jane]

GS...welcome aboard!

good fuck the board ain't been on fire like this for a long time!

And as one chick who's been in the firing line many-a-time herself on here, I gotta say, you really handled yourself well and expressed yourself well...not backing away, not flinging (too much) mud, apologizing where need be, but above all continuing to try to explain your position, while maintaining a sense of humour.

if we can't take the piss out of ourselves, we're all doomed.

and for the record, to weigh in on the debate: thinking that waving a replica gun around is cool & edgy is just plain immature, and to defend it is even more so. See Bouche's wiki link above!

[afro poppa]

Booche is telling the truth, I've seen him brandish yellow cards at festies

i would absolutely love to see that happen...what happens if they get a red card? do they need to leave and then sit out the next festival?

[Groove Fetish]

a truely briliant response-Booche- your too f'ing funny. I think I may take that one and run with it. What is it three yellows and your out of the game?

gf

[guelphstudent]

GS...welcome aboard!

Thanks Jane and everyone - those who agree with me AND those who dont.

I must admit that it seems I didnt just bite off more than a mouthful here, I bit off the whole f*cking buffet. In case people havent noticed, I can get quite passionate about things.

I think I like it here.

[ollie]

Dunno GS....I'm battling you on this because so much of Guelph is hyper-focussed on political correctness...

Obviously not when it comes to the mentally ill.

Oh yeah, she apologized for that so she mustn't have meant it. At least Mel Gibson was drunk.

[guelphstudent]

Dunno GS....I'm battling you on this because so much of Guelph is hyper-focussed on political correctness...

Obviously not when it comes to the mentally ill.

Oh yeah' date=' she apologized for that so she mustn't have meant it. At least Mel Gibson was drunk.[/quote']

wow. that was REALLY unfair, Ollie.

i said I was sorry, twice! what more do you want?

and for what it is worth, I inadvertently made fun of the mentally ill by using an ill-chosen nickname and then I very insensitively mocked your challenge, abd I apologized for it. you will note that I did not use it afterwards.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

Booche is telling the truth' date=' I've seen him brandish yellow cards at festies[/quote']

i would absolutely love to see that happen...what happens if they get a red card? do they need to leave and then sit out the next festival?

well seeing as how booche doesn't look at all like an authority figure (au contraire, actually), he never bothered even bringing a red card.

and now that i think about it, i think it was just a way to introduce himself to party neighbours to see if he could wrangle a beer or other such 'stimulae' out of them

it evolved out of his erstwhile favourite technique of watching soap operas in order to have a readymade conversational topic to bring up around girls (yes there were plenty of steps in between...)