Go Leafs Go - Fan Forum

[Booche]

So the only time they know who's in charge is when ticket sales are comprimised?

I may be mistaken but wasnt there talk that without a huge turnaround Toronto was looking to lose the Raptors?

[Kanada Kev]

So the only time they know who's in charge is when ticket sales are comprimised?

What I was getting at is the fact that the possibility of losing money to these people is what lights a fire under their asses!

[Hal Johnson]

I really dont know what were all arguing about...Booche, your right, and Kev, you'r right, as far as Im concerned.

I guess Im just surprised that the Maple Leaf brass are exactly who the fans and media say they are. That despite all the verbal abuse and ongoing dissent, they really are just taking a large dump on the ice and laughing at us for eating it all up.

[Kanada Kev]

Just got an email that Jason Blake is here at the CBC being interviewed by Stomboulopoulos for The Hour. Was going to go, but i've got other shit to do, and I might say something untoward in the studio

I was thinking about yelling out "Downey" and seeing if he flinched

Edited January 14, 2008 by Guest

[Booche]

That should be a good interview tonight. I best watch it.

Jim Carr: Denis, I know that some in our audience don't know the finer points of hockey. Could you tell them, for example, what is icing?

Denis: Well, hicing appen when de puck come down, bang, you know, before de udder guys, nobody dere, you know. My harm go comes out, den de game stop den start up.

Jim Carr: I see. What is high-sticking?

Denis: Eye-sticking appen when de guy take de stick, you know, and he go like dat. You don't do dat. Oh, no. Never, never.

Jim Carr: Why not?

Denis: Hagainst de rules. You stupid when you do dat, some Henglish pig with no brains...

[AD]

post of the day, even if it was copied and pasted. good job

[Booche]

AD, I Dr Booche'd it so she would 'read' better if you want to know the truth.

[ollie]

Cliff Fletcher. Wicked.

[dave-O]

Sure I rag on the Leaves all the time, but it so fucking classless that they're sending feelers out to potential interim GM candidates before JFJ is even fired. Speaks volumes about their organization.

http://www.tsn.ca/tsn_talent/columnists/bob_mckenzie/?id=227313

[Blane]

no shit. If I was JFJ I'd fucking walk. No notice, no press conference, just stop showing up to work.

YOu want to drag me through the dirt, here's what you get.

[Booche]

I cant believe I am about to write this but I am starting to feel sorry for JFJ. He came into this position after the lockout and was a laaaaaaate hire that summer. Most teams had much of their rosters set and he was thrust into the belly of the beast, not too mention having a bone-dry cupboard and the fact he was a rookie.

He was never given a clean hand to play and now he has to deal with all of this. Its time he takes off the gloves and walks into Peddie's office and demands an immediate answer.

[AD]

which raises the question - why the fuck hasn't he done exactly that? what's stopping him? he's gonna get fired either way.

[badams]

I cant believe I am about to write this but I am starting to feel sorry for JFJ. He came into this position after the lockout and was a laaaaaaate hire that summer. Most teams had much of their rosters set and he was thrust into the belly of the beast, not too mention having a bone-dry cupboard and the fact he was a rookie.

He was never given a clean hand to play and now he has to deal with all of this. Its time he takes off the gloves and walks into Peddie's office and demands an immediate answer.

I agree but then he traded away what was left in the cupboard. He was never the right man for this job.

[SmoothedShredder]

I wrote this big long post and it got zapped...

In agreement with Booches' last comment in can be summed up as this:

Insanity is a perfectly natural response to an unhealthy environment.

Clean up the Leave upper management, and success may follow... leaf it as is... and there will be no Stanley Cup parade down Queen Street... JFJ could be a decent GM if not for the Bullshit he's gone through...

Leave Management has probably done more single handedly at contributing to the Leafs playoff futility than the other teams in the league do.

[Kanada Kev]

JFJ's probably waiting to be let go by MLSE. Wait for the financial package and payout. By quitting and walking away, he may forfeit the chance at a few extra bucks.

Peddie and Tannenbaum childishly play the other owners off one another. They need to have ownership that's not so tied up in political bullshit. Their tactics surrounding the Leaf GM and Coaching position is pathetic. Piss or get off the pot already.

[Hal Johnson]

Lets back up a bit here - JFJ may be getting the runaround, but he has undoubtedly made some retartedly stupid moves. Lets not kid ourselves. Seriously.

[Hal Johnson]

But I do see your points. As dumb as he has been, its not entirely his fault.

[badams]

The whole organization is a mess and has been for years. They really need to step back, straighten it out and move foward from here.

[Hal Johnson]

Ya, thats true. Wish I could find what Pat Quin said about them after he left - shed some light on the whole situation.

Scotty Bowman probably would have been a good place to start.

[Blane]

Oh, I'm not arguing that JFJ is a shitty manager. I fully agree that he is, but the fact of the matter is that MLSE was dumb enough to hire him, and now at this point they're not even smart enough to fire him.

if, as an owner you hire on an employee and they do an unsatisfactory job, you get rid of them in the appropriate way. MLSE has done it wrong from beginning right through to end.

[Hal Johnson]

but the fact of the matter is that MLSE was dumb enough to hire him, and now at this point they're not even smart enough to fire him.

I think this is where my frustration is coming from, thanks for hitting the nail on the head.

[AD]

I think Damien Cox has some great ideas.

How to fix Leafs' ugly mess

Four Star columnists offer suggestions — some even serious — on curing what ails the Toronto franchise

Jan 15, 2008 04:30 AM

Bring in Scotty Bowman, trade Mats Sundin, play Andrew Raycroft more. How to fix the Leafs is on everyone’s mind these long winter days. We asked The Star’s team for their list.

DAMIEN COX

1. MLSE board sets annual budget and gets quarterly report from team president. Otherwise, board members relinquish the right to approve major hockey decisions.

2. Replace Richard Peddie as Maple Leafs president. New president must have won at least one Stanley Cup ring as GM or head coach. Salary: $750,000 per season. Bonus structure: $25 million for winning Cup. Other salary/bonuses: None.

3. A five-year moratorium on trading away or otherwise sacrificing first-round draft picks. Players selected with first-round picks can't be traded for three years.

4. Identify five best amateur scouts and five best pro scouts now working for the other 29 NHL clubs. Offer to hire two of each at double their current salaries.

5. Establish policy that bans no-trade, no-movement clauses in future contracts for Leafs players unless those players have won an NHL scoring title, Hart Trophy (league MVP), Vezina Trophy (top goalie) or Norris Trophy (best defenceman).

DAVE PERKINS

1. Exhume Harold Ballard and make him chairman of the board. He, too, was a terrible owner, but at least he would make decisions, unlike this paralyzed collection of money changers who know puck-all.

2. Hand out designer bags for fans embarrassed to be seen in the Air Canada Centre. Pinstriped designer bags for the lower bowl, brown paper for the upper deck. Add a special Maple Leafs plastic bag for dog owners only, for use on pick-up duty.

3. Go completely into the tank. Buy out and release Tucker, Kubina and Blake, for starters. Pay Sundin whatever it costs to waive his no-trade clause, but accept only draft choices in return, because no one in power obviously can be trusted to judge incoming talent properly.

4. Into the tank II: Play Raycroft more. They're closing in on a shot at Steve Stamkos, the consensus No.1 draft choice. Finish 30th and the worst they'll pick is second overall, which, granted, still might be too far down the list for them not to screw up.

5. Sell the team to an owner who won't focus on hijacking stadiums from taxpayers, or the NBA, or soccer, or condo towers or 22 per cent profit margins. Sell to an owner with deep pockets who wants only one thing: A Stanley Cup regardless of what it takes or costs and who is smart enough to hire good people and stay out of their way.

DAVE FESCHUK

1. Chip in to buy Richard Peddie a pro roller derby team. Clearly the CEO, ever since he was drummed out of Raptorland, needs his fix of mingling with hunky athletes. He might not even notice the subtle differences in the skates.

2. Heckle retired teachers. It's your 72-year-old former kindergarten teacher and her gold-plated pension that perpetuates this mess. Give her some guff!

3. Stop deifying Mats Sundin. Big numbers + crappy team = a mirage. That he doesn't want out of a laughingstock tells you everything.

4. Quit buying tickets, suckers. As if.

ROSIE DIMANNO

1. Bite the multimillion-dollar bullet and dispatch Andrew Raycroft to the Marlies for mental rehabilitation. This would be a kindness for the beleaguered goalie, now a leaden presence on the bench. Scott Clemmensen isn't Mr. Right but he's the lesser Mr. Wrong.

2. If a coaching change is imminent, accept that there are no worthy replacements immediately handy for long-term stewardship. Seek permission from Lou Lamoriello to hire Pat Burns for the balance of the season. He'll likely not get the Leafs into the playoffs but he'll sure as hell kick some ass. Make Doug Gilmour his assistant coach. This would at least provide some entertainment and make a feel-good story.

3. Designate a genuine hockey boss. Scotty Bowman is clearly game. Get the board of directors and its Product X sycophants out of the picture.

4. The Leafs are not a team designed to cycle well down low without losing possession. This is the puck; this is the slot. Insert player here.

5. Too much Dr. Phil hockey in these parts. Play mean for a change, like losing bugs you. Tie Domi can hold a clinic ... when he's not holding forth with Larry Tanenbaum.

[Guest Low Roller]

'People' are saying that Fletcher has all but taken the job (minus the small problem that he is still contracted to the Coyotes.)

Sundin needs to take it like a man and waive his no-trade clause if he really cares that much about this team. Get some prospects back into that cupboard. Possibly grab a first round pick.

Get the scouts to do their job and draft some good players in the first round (should theoretically have two picks in the first round of a strong draft) rather than trade them away for temporary stop-gaps.

[AD]

One Step Forward, Four Back

There are many reasons why the Leafs can't move forward.

One is that this franchise can never resist moving backwards.

They fired Punch Imlach in 1969 because he was running the team into the ground. Then they brought him back a decade later to finish the job.

Carl Brewer walked out on the team in 1965. They brought him back 15 years later at age 41 and he aptly demonstrated he couldn't play anymore.

Wendel Clark was the future when he was drafted in 1985, and no longer the future when he was traded away for Mats Sundin in 1994. Then they brought him back. Twice.

Doug Gilmour brought the last sense of glory to the team with the run to the conference finals in '93 and '94, but by the winter of 1997 was gone for a package of futures - Jason Smith, Alyn McCauley and Steve Sullivan.

Five years later, he was back again, if only for an unbelievably brief time. Then he came back again as an executive.

I could go on. Mike Pelyk, Drake Berehowsky, Tie Domi, Bobby Baun, Darby Hendrickson - the list just goes on and on. I mean, last week, they extended an offer to Curtis Joseph to come back for another shot.

It fits a franchise bereft of ideas that the best ones always seem to be familiar ones, usually ones that failed before.

No other team does this, or at least not nearly to this extent.

So of course the Leafs have reached out to Cliff Fletcher.

It's the only hockey executive's name most of these dummies would know.

Come on back, Cliff. All is forgiven. At a time when rebuilding through the draft is the only way to go, why not re-hire the man who coined the phrase, "Draft, schmaft?"

Does nobody remember that in Fletcher's last season the Leafs finished with 68 points and were even worse than they are now? Doesn't anybody remember they didn't even get to use that miserable season to draft high because the No. 4 pick was traded to the New York Islanders, who selected Roberto Luongo?

Now, let's be clear. Fletcher is a classy, classy individual who has done more in and for the game that most anybody on the planet. When he was inducted into the Hall of Fame as a builder, he was one of the few you could say actually deserved it.

But hiring him to be the caretaker GM isn't just a case of MLSE being unable to think outside the box. It's that their box is so incredibly small.

It's a desperate attempt to grab on to Fletcher's popularity, still impressive in the city a decade after he left.

Fletcher has oodles of friends in hockey, and so you'll hear tribute after tribute about him, about his knowledge and experience.

What you won't hear is anybody telling you the truth because people respect Fletcher so much.

They won't tell you that they had to get him out of out the Phoenix hockey operation super fast because he was driving Mike Barnett and Wayne Gretzky crazy.

Fletcher was allowed to walk away from that hockey disaster without a mark on him because he is so beloved in the game.

But if he comes back, the gloves will be off again.

I hope Fletcher tells these morons to take a hike. He doesn't deserve this, although you can bet the old energy is coursing through the Silver Fox's bloodstream this morning.

Being a GM in the NHL these days is a young man's game. It takes an incredible amount of dedication and energy and drive. Wanna hire a Fletcher? Then hire his very smart son, Chuck, now an executive in Pittsburgh. This team needs a GM to get to work now, not an interim GM to hand off the job in June or July, thus putting the Leafs behind the eight-ball for next season. Again.

Then again, we all need a good laugh now and then. And watching the Leafs go backwards again is just too funny. Remember when they fired Roger Neilson, then brought him back a couple of days later and wanted him to wear a paper bag over his head.

Hey, Maybe Cliff will wear a paper bag!

But if he won't do it, how about Floyd Smith? Or Pat Burns, yes, that'll work. Or Doug Carpenter, or Gerry McNamara, or John Brophy, or Jim Gregory, or Mike Smith, or. . . . .

[rubberdinghy]

Dave Feschuk has a good point...

#4 Quit buying tickets.