Creepy Guys at Chameleon Project

[Kanada Kev]

this crowd is delusional and in denial about their drug and alcohol addictions

Huh? Since when did i get an addiction? wtf?

I should renounce the last ten years of my life and give up all credibility I have built in this scene.

How can you give up years of your life gone by? They're gone. Credibility? From where I'm watching your credibility meter seems to be stuck and it's nowhere near the level that you seem to think it is. Oh wait, that's right, I'm one of the 'delusional' people I forgot

I care I really care. That is the problem. Im looking at the man in the mirror. Why dont all of you?

Yup, the love just seems to oooze out of your posts. You're telling me to look at the man in the mirror? That's funny. That line makes me think you're now quoting Michael Jackson lyrics ... are you?

[SmoothedShredder]

I have never enjoyed Chameleon Project. The drummer is marginally good, the bass players concepts are pretty weak and lacking and the guitarist is a fucking joke. A pedal board and some dude playing guitar. I really really tried to just get into it and enjoy but they had no concept of how to build the tension and release of a Break- which is what Jungle, Breaks and Hip Hop are based on. Instead they meander about touching on a variety of faded styles and pander to their audience who is so touched in the head from the copious quantities of animal tranquilizers that they'd meow at the moon.

This is a fair point. They do play to their audience... I can't speak for each individual, but they do 'indulge'.

My point is that any challenging feedback/criticizm you have offered gets lost in a sea of drama, where the subject of your peices becomes more about the man in the mirror than it is about the band that is the subject of the review.

That's all-fine-and-good, but it just seems to make it even more difficult for a band which is 'not good' to dechypher your message and to take the positive steps which you suggest. Even the above passage is loaded with triggers, and aggitators which only distract bands on an ego level from understanding in what areas they can improve from an audience members perspective. The way you try to frame it, you make it sound that they would be better off throwing all their gear into a pile and setting it on fire. And turn themselves into the police while they are at it.

I mean do you want these bands you criticize to get better? Or do you just like to complain? Is it some kind of elitist system where only the worthy shall pass? Me, I just want people to have a good time... small venues and developing bands rock.

[kung]

You are all completely off your nut. From how you lay it out William I'm supposed to say something like 'respectfully guys in Chameleon Project, and I've got mad love for your whole thing and totally dig on how you really build a break and get the crowd going (a total lie). I really love how the audience is so into what they're doing (while whacked on E, Ketamine and Cocaine- another total lie). Maybe you guys could try doing something maybe a little more socially conscious and less drug oriented and people might appreciate that a bit more'. First of all that is riddled with lies, second it is not me or my style, third of all it completely betrays the fact that I actually know what the fuck I'm talking about and make a living at it.

As for questions surrounding my credibility whether StoneMtn. (and in all fairness I could care less about what a hippy lawyer from Vancouver thinks - I mean really I just don't even give a remote shit- you all apparently obsessed with what others think) or others. I'm not concerned about my crebility in the jamband scene or any other scene. I have a lot of crebibility, I'm a credible resource precisely because I don't lay on the sunshine vibe like JayDawg (who is a paid publicist and promoter who is in the business of saying endlessly nice things about artists he may or not believe in - God Made Me Funky is for instance an absolutely awful group and yet he sings their praises - he is in fact paid to).

I don't get paid to speak my mind as I have here. In fact I have to pay for it by attending to the plebian concerns of ignorant people who type well before they think.

[Gateaux]

Man you are going to have a realllly hard time getting on any guest lists with this attitude Luke, even with all your credibility.

Your panties are in a bunch so you came on here and went off again, people react and you pull your high and mighty bullshit. You enjoy trying to make people on this board feel small Luke when in fact your no bigger than the piece of dog poo on the bottom of my shoe.

I think you need a hug and a nice cup or warm milk, would that help?

[Esau.]

Making at living at it, crebility, but still finds the need to shoplift candy.

And in case your wondering, that got around.

[SmoothedShredder]

I'm not saying lie. You're entiltled to your opinion, and I'm entilted to an opinion of your opinion, as well as my own independant opinion, which may or may not have similar criticizims as your opinion (we can see the same thing from a different point of view). I love discourse... It's just the meaning of a word is it's use, and I'm trying to find out what you mean.

I love semantics! But is this really the forum for this?

Lets just agree there were creepy guys there. But it's not like us to turn away people at the door just cause we don't like the way they look... next time, if they are giving you a problem, speak to the staff, cause if they are breaking the rules, we can get rid of them.

[phishtaper]

You are all completely off your nut.

[AD]

I don't get paid to speak my mind as I have here. In fact I have to pay for it by attending to the plebian concerns of ignorant people who type well before they think.

if we're all a bunch of losers, and this is such a chore, and you don't like anything that is said, and you have to deal with our plebian concerns, well, sounds like this isn't the right place for you. you've said as much. so fuck off.

[allison]

In my perhaps simplistic view,which attributes a great deal of weight to what and how people write,given that the context of this discussion is a MESSAGEBOARD(and I dont have a personal context to frame everything people say in)...

the following lends credibility

I care I really care

not

As far as the band well clearly despite the fact that I'm a full time music journalist, I don't drink, I've been writing about improvisational music in Canada since before jambands.ca existed- not to mention I've been a head for longer than almost all this board

The first quote is evident in everything you write without you having to say it,and validates itself.

The second quote is not evident in everthing you write except that you actually point it out,and to me,somehwhat invalidates what you are saying.

An opinion well stated with passion and clarity doesnt need a curriculum vitae.

I thought William made a very good point-and didnt at all tell you to sugar coat your opinions,just to examine what affect you wanted your words to have,especially with an eye towards construtive growth-not punishing coup de grace.

[Kanada Kev]

As far as the band well clearly despite the fact that I'm a full time music journalist, I don't drink, I've been writing about improvisational music in Canada since before jambands.ca existed- not to mention I've been a head for longer than almost all this board

This makes me laugh. You said you don't care for all of the losers in here, yet you make a comment such as this to somehow "prove" your greatness to us. You were being a "music critic" before this board existed? Big Whoop! You've been a "head" for longer than many here? Big Whoop! I didn't know we had Deadhead "rankings" here. What's the criteria? Number of shows attended? How long you've been listening? Buddy, that's so NOT being a head (other than of the "dick" kind).

So you earn a few bucks for writing about music? So what? Does that mean that you are so much more credible when it comes to analysing a form of art and determining whether it is valid or not! I don't think so. Music/art is not about making EVERYONE agree with how it makes you feel or what it means. "Critics" such as you believe you so greatly are should try being a little more humble from time to time and get off your high horse.

A critic is a legless man who teaches running. (Anonymous)

A non-doer is very often a critic – that is, someone who sits back and watches doers, and then waxes philosophically about how the doers are doing. It's easy to be a critic, but being a doer requires effort, risk, and change. (Wayne Dyer)

A critic is a bundle of biases held loosely together by a sense of taste. (Whitney Balliett)

They are quite hopeless - drooling, driveling, doleful, depressing, dropsical drips. (Thomas Beecham)

Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves. (Brendan Behan)

-The Devil's Dictionary, 1911

critic, n. A person who boasts himself hard to please because nobody tries to please him. (Ambrose Bierce)

Life is much too short to worry about art critics. (Peter William Brown)

A critic never fights the battle; they just go around shooting the wounded. (Tyne Daly)

Now, in reality, the world has paid too great a compliment to critics, and has imagined them to be men of much greater profundity then they really are. (Henry Fielding)

A critic is a man created to praise greater men than himself, but he is never able to find them. (Richard Le Gallienne)

Insects sting, not from malice, but because they want to live. It is the same with critics – they desire our blood, not our pain. (Friedrich Nietzsche)

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat. (Theodore Roosevelt)

http://quote.robertgenn.com/getquotes.php?catid=67

[kung]

Good Luck. Take some responsibility for the fact that this sea of drama is your own. I am just sea sick and hurling over the gunnels.

[ollie]

Now yer just being critical of the critics Kev!

[Tricky]

But you are just one aspect amongst many that make this drama what it is... The least you could do is make it fun, we all have drama in our lives, you just seem to point fingers at everyone but yourself and play some sort of blame game. Just have some fun, lighten up dude, you seem angry at yourself for being a part of this scene.

[Kanada Kev]

Now yer just being critical of the critics Kev!

D'oh! I'm getting sucked into the evil vortex and am slowly being consumed by the giant hogweed of critics. Soon i'll be calling the kettle black and there will be no coming back ... AAAHHHHHH. I think i'm starting to feel some of that sea sickness coming on. Look out ... i'm gonna hurl!

[MarcO]

People seem to have little problem with critics so long as they're on the same page as them. If you go to a show and the paper gives it a good review, we quietly celebrate the critic for being "correct". When it gets a poor review, we lash out at how someone so stupid could not experience the brilliance they had in front of them, and silly letters are written to an editor who couldn't care less. People, I think, also like to assume that constructive criticism is more useful and effective than more combative forms of criticism, which is certainly debatable. I don't think it's the role of the critic to necessarily be constructive, kind or balanced in his or her craft, the minumum at best is simply to be informed and experienced.

I'm not making a judgment as to whether Luke is a good or bad critic of the scene but it's mostly because I'm far more fascinated by people's reaction to him, and his style of writing, than the man himself. Scratch below the surface of people lobbing back and forth and a lot gets revealed.

[bouche]

Where is Magnum P.I. in all of this? I was sure he'd chime in on the ladies.

[AD]

kev, you got it all over my gunnels

[allison]

I'm far more fascinated by people's reaction to him, and his style of writing, than the man himself

How very isolating for Luke.

On a lighter note,Kanada Kev quoted TYNE DALY!!!!LOL

[Kanada Kev]

On a lighter note,Kanada Kev quoted TYNE DALY!!!!LOL

Don't mess with Tyne Daly! In any case it's really not cool and you are lucky I don't fuÇking rock your head in.

[allison]

You are going to rock my head in because Tyne Daly is derivative or because I was thinking of you in a sexual,crude and stupid way?

Just so I know.

[bagochips]

I don't know shit so don't get all excited like. Kung, when not engaged in personal attacks,adolescent vitriol and miplaced self-righteousness, you seem to write well and with some passion. Many of your observations are no doubt true and damn funny. I love the phrase "Om wookie" for instance. Do you have a blog of your own? I would love to check that out. Your bloood pressure is possibly a tad high, though. May I suggest yoga?

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Fwiw, if someone's going to toot their horn as a critic, I would like to see some of that art - and it is a difficult art - in evidence. All I've seen, with the exception of the rare phrase here and there - is bombast and a heap of unsubstatiated preferences and dislikes.

Were there some consistent logic in play in the criticisms, though, there might be something for people to respond to (I'm partial to Frankfurt School myself, but then everyone's subject to their own literary fetishes). I have this sneaking sense that Kung/Luke (I'm not clear which persona is speaking at different times) doesn't respect other people's logics. I've dealt with fundamentalists often enough to recognise the pattern.

I'm already regretting the minute and a half it took out of my day to type this, because I'm not expecting him to answer it with any more attention and any less bombast - if anything at all - than any other point that's been raised here.

At least the pictures have been funny.

[Kanada Kev]

kev, you got it all over my gunnels

Sorry AD ... that happens sometimes. I know that you were spelling that word the way you did because you saw Kung Allmighty do it that way. However, anyone who's been around boats at all knows that it is spelled Gunwale. I know it was just an oversight AD

I like the Greatful Dead and Fish ... how about you?

[AD]

dude, like, don't get all jaydawg on me.

although we're both right. as is luke in this case

gun·wale also gun·nel (gŭn'əl) Pronunciation Key

n. Nautical

The upper edge of the side of a vessel.

[AD]

or, even more erotic interesting..

gun·nel 1 (gŭn'əl) Pronunciation Key

n. Any of various small, elongated fishes of the family Pholidae, common in the tidal pools and coastal waters of northern seas.