Wilco sells out. WTF!?!

[guigsy]

As someone said, there's a big difference between selling out and cashing in. If Wilco didn't make any artistic (or ethical) compromises to have their music used for a commercial, and reaped the benefits of it being used, good on 'em.

Aloha,

Brad

i think thats actually a great point.

its not like VW approached Wilco and said, "ok, we need you to make an album for us to use in car commercials - go to it!"... unless they did and wilco's kept it under their hats.

people fear things like this, and bands "going mainstream", because it's associated with all things sucky like nickelback and formula rock, etc... but if music that was actually worthwhile starting getting into more ears, and possibly influencing what the "mainstream" is, how is that a bad thing? wouldnt we rather have less shitty music out there cluttering up the airwaves?

or, as a rule (the indie rule? ), is it just always better to not like things once a lot of other people start to like it, too?

given what we know about the way wilco has done business in the past (yhf), i think these guys have their artistic integrity intact - wasnt that kind of the underlying point of the whole stand-off? that music can appeal to a wide range of people without having to have that same radio-rock pop schlock formula attached to it? i think tweedy and the boys are doing a good job of proving it.

VW seems to have a history of using some cool tunes, though... remember when modest mouse had gravity rides everything in a commercial? around 2000, when moon and antarctica came out, they were still playing smaller rooms like the opera house... i think a case could be made that that paved the way for their successes with the last couple albums.

[AD]

and boom goes the dynamite.

excellent points guigsy.

[paisley]

what would Moby do?

[Weirdness]

"This Note's For You"-Neil Young

Don't want no cash

Don't need no money

Ain't got no stash

This note's for you.

Ain't singin' for Pepsi

Ain't singin' for Coke

I don't sing for nobody

Makes me look like a joke

This note's for you.

Ain't singin' for Miller

Don't sing for Bud

I won't sing for politicians

Ain't singin' for Spuds

This note's for you.

Don't need no cash

Don't want no money

Ain't got no stash

This note's for you.

I've got the real thing

I got the real thing, baby

I got the real thing

Yeah, alright.

[d_rawk]

I still don't understand why we are discussing this as though Wilco were the ones in the drivers seat. Do they really own the exclusive rights to their label distributed material such that they make all the financial calls regarding where and when it can or will be heard?

If people actually went out and purchased the music itself, artists would not have to rely on other sources of income.

Maybe. But I wonder where all my private copy levy money has gone all of these years. There is a reason downloading music isn't illegal in Canada .. we've been paying for it forever.

[deranger]

I feel pretty split about the whole thing. I wonder if the content of the ad or the advertiser themselves might not have some bearing on the debate. What if the ads were for Lockeed Martin? Or cigarettes? Would people who otherwise support Wilco's decision feel any different?

[AD]

I still don't understand why we are discussing this as though Wilco were the ones in the drivers seat. Do they really own the exclusive rights to their label distributed material such that they make all the financial calls regarding where and when it can or will be heard?

Do you have insider info into their deal?

[AD]

What if the ads were for Lockeed Martin? Or cigarettes? Would people who otherwise support Wilco's decision feel any different?

Does Lockheed Martin need to take out catchy TV ads to sell their products to the masses? "Gee honey, we could really use a new F-22 Raptor. I hope you got that $340 million raise! Thank God Law and Order is on!"

Are you allowed to advertise cigarettes on TV, and do you think any music exec would go after that market with Wilco's music?

[hamilton]

I still don't understand why we are discussing this as though Wilco were the ones in the drivers seat. Do they really own the exclusive rights to their label distributed material such that they make all the financial calls regarding where and when it can or will be heard?

The explanation given by the band on their website seems to indicate that they *did* have a say. It's probably not "exclusive" - I mean, they can't argue about whether a certain radio station can play their music or not - but I think they certainly implied that it was their decision rather than the label's decision.

Also, I second guigsy in pointing out that Brad's point was completely spot-on. I tip my hat to you, sir.

[guigsy]

I feel pretty split about the whole thing. I wonder if the content of the ad or the advertiser themselves might not have some bearing on the debate. What if the ads were for Lockeed Martin? Or cigarettes? Would people who otherwise support Wilco's decision feel any different?

i understand where you're going with that.. but it sounds like the band gave that sort of thing at least a little thought:

And we feel okay about VWs. Several of us even drive them.

perhaps they wouldnt just allow anyone to use the material?

[LXQ42]

My Question is why the hell WOULDN'T Wilco want to use their songs to support VW? Have you ever thought that perhaps all the Wilco guys drive V dubs and really like them? That they think to themselves.."wow. this car is so economical and good for the environment. I wish I could use my songs to support this company so everyone can see how great these cars are. Hey, wait a second...I CAN!!"

[bouche]

I didn't hear anyone scream when Ween did a VW commercial or Spearhead a phone commercial.

I did.

WAHHHH!!! Wilco's in a VW commercial! WAHHH!

[bouche]

whoa! Looks like they sold out EVEN FURTHER! Listen to what the Engineer is strumming on the guitar in this trailer for an upcoming game called Team Fortress 2.

Team Fortress 2: Meet The Engineer

[d_rawk]

Do you have insider info into their deal?

Nah, I don't have insider info into anything at all. I'm a little worn out from years worth of hearing artists being chastised for being 'sell outs' for licensing decisions that they have no control over, or authors being 'sell outs' because their publishers put an Oprah stamp on their books.

My understanding was that the earlier catalogue of Wilco material was licensed to Warner. I haven't the faintest what the current arrangement is regarding rights distribution between them and their label. I just thought it premature to lay the decision at their feet at the first sound of their tunes on a commercial, given the probabilities. I'm pretty much unmoved either way, it just seemed like a rather large assumption to make.

I'm not sure whether the explanation that Hamilton is referring to is the same as what Meggo quoted above. If so, I'm not at all certain that stating "comfort" with a situation is the same as claiming responsibility for it. But I have no idea. Wilco may well be in control of licensing arrangements, and good for them if that is the case. It just seems silly to me when people jump all over a band when they hear their material in any sort of commercial venue and don't consider the arrangements under which those exchanges tend to place. Tend to. Most often. I don't know jack about Wilco's circumstances, I'll stitch those words into my panties to drive the point home, if it'll make you happy

[StoneMtn]

Personally, it doesn't bother me when bands make money from their songs in various ways.

As far as whether they had control, though, in Canada and in all other jurisdictions in the world that subscribe to the Berne Convention, which is most Western nations, moral rights remain with the author of a work, even where the work, or the copyright in the work, has been sold or assigned. Among other things, the moral rights give the author the right to control what the work is or is not associated with. (The idea, for instance, is to allow an author to always have the right to say, "No. I don't care if you bought all other rights to my song. I will still prohibit you from using it in that Hitler Youth recruitment video." There are some good policy-reasons for this.)

In the U.S., though, I am quite certain an author can waive those moral rights by contract. So, essentially, if Wilco still had the moral rights they could have stopped this useage of their work. If they sold the moral rights by waiving them pursuant to contract, well then they did exactly what this thread suggests they did; they gave up control of their work for money.

[M.O.B.E]

what would Moby do?

Get stomped by Obie Trice

[Sheebs]

"This notes for you" by Neil Young was later used in a bud commercial remember?

Irony

[StoneMtn]

It was? I don't remember that at all. What was the commercial like?

[d_rawk]

Anyone else remember this?

William Burroughs for Nike

Posted Aug 14, 2007

Legendary writer William S. Burroughs lends his face along with a spoken word narrative to Nike.

Now that was bizarre.

I went to see Ginsberg do a talk one time and he had a whole routine about Burroughs doing Nike, himself doing Gap, and Dylan doing banks.

[hamilton]

If you're keeping track, this is not the first time Wilco has licensed a song to or even been involved in a commercial -- most recently a TV spot for Telefonica Mobile in Spain used a Wilco song and some years prior Jeff Tweedy appeared in a campaign for Apple Computer. Wilco have licensed hundreds of songs to television shows and films worldwide... from festival-only indie films to major motion pictures and weekly TV shows.

This is the quote that I was referring to, which is on Pitchfork via the band's website. It's not exactly crystal clear, but they are using their own name in the active voice rather than the passive one, so it does at least imply that it was the band's decision rather than the label's.

I have no problem with their decision to do this.

Edited September 13, 2007 by Guest

[Davey Boy 2.0]

I'd like to support Hamilton's seconding of guigsy in pointing out that Brad's point was completely spot-on

[bradm]

I'd like to support Hamilton's seconding of guigsy in pointing out that Brad's point was completely spot-on

Ah, you'd like to support Hamilton's seconding of guigsy in pointing out that my point was completely spot-on, but do you actually support it?

And what if I were to change my mind on this issue?

Aloha,

Brad

[phishtaper]

and so like the wiki, the revisionism begins ...

[bouche]

whoa! Looks like they sold out EVEN FURTHER! Listen to what the Engineer is strumming on the guitar in this trailer for an upcoming game called Team Fortress 2.

Team Fortress 2: Meet The Engineer

someone watch this and tell me what WILCO song it is being played on the guitar (after the intro). well, I know what it is...but DO YOU?

[The Chameleon]

No one has still answered the most key question to all of this....

If you have a ethical problem with musicians/bands you like licensing their music to commercials etc...and these days no one to a large extent buy music...then how do you expect jam-bands like Wilco and Ween to make money and keep going?