Hip Hop: The New Rome

[allison]

So you are saying you are a true Marxist-meaning Orthodox Marxist?

So if we apply dialetical materialism to Hip Hop-what do we get?

Curious.

Also curious why you posted an essay that threw Mailer into a specific reactionary time and space-not one that underlined him as being broadly accurate.Interesting-but doesnt really back up your argument.

[NewRider]

wow, a new low for this board.

I think that you should watch Malibu's Most Wanted.

lol.. "Don't be hatin'!"

Edited April 12, 2007 by Guest

[nellie]

fantastic cut n' paste job sugah!

buwhahah thats hilarious!

[NewRider]

I hate the stupid Paint program on this computer.

[Tricky]

So you are saying you are a true Marxist-meaning Orthodox Marxist?

So if we apply dialetical materialism to Hip Hop-what do we get?

Curious.

Also curious why you posted an essay that threw Mailer into a specific reactionary time and space-not one that underlined him as being broadly accurate.Interesting-but doesnt really back up your argument.

sounds more like Hegelianism...with hip hop as the catalyst instead of the human race.

[YearsAlongTheSea]

Is the Hippie Mafia Hip Hop then?

Just curious. Last time I checked they ran, not necessarily on a similar set of values socially, but on a certain set of morals in terms of embracing organized crime as a lucrative, counter-culture means to supporting their own basket of ideals.

I know Sound Tribe has Concious-Lyricist, White MC's join them from time to time, but that ain't hip hop...

[AD]

The new Mos Def record sucks

[phishtaper]

jeesh, somebody show their tits and lighten the mood here already!

hegel? marx? im having painful flashbacks of SOC101! :crazy:

[SmoothedShredder]

Three cheers for Allison! She's says the things I wish I was only smart enough to.

edit: please note, I replied to AD, and not directley to what Phish taper just said above... :blush:

2nd Edit: I miss Lazlo.

Edited April 12, 2007 by Guest
awkward :s

[allison]

The new Mos Def record sucks

Really? I haven't heard it yet.So behind on my music listening!

De La Soul is playing at Pitchfork(you probably already know that!)

I love Mos Def.

(Talib Kwali):

Yo, I was sold to a sick European by a rich African Battle-man,

Middle passages, I can't go back again.

Battlin' years who denied history's lies,

while mystery's wive's, watching with misty eyes

watching they niggas be beaten visciously

Battling this world is North America,

ran by the river, only stopping to pray.

Change My Predators:

Terrorists with ediquiette, who vote and kill they president,

Their capacity for evil so evident, and prevalent.

Ain't no hesitation involved, a nation dissolved,

while we sit back waitin' to evolve.

Those who'd trade they freedom for protection deserve neither.

Fuck a name, fuck tradition, religion, you learn Jesus.

Turn the other cheek, Inherit the earth, just stay meek.

Fuck the way you speak, you try to walk, they chop off your feet.

Fast forward to 2003; Niggas beef.

The psychology of choosin the slaves run deep.

Chorus:

Hell Yeah, yeah, yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah

What's Beef?

Hell Yeah, yeah yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah

That's Beef

Hell Yeah, yeah yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah

Its always your own people, sometimes it's your own people

X2

(Mos Def):

Yo, Beef is not what Jay said to Nas,

Beef is when working niggas can't find jobs.

So they try to find niggas to rob,

Try to find bigger guns so they can finish the job.

Beef is when a crack-kid can't find moms,

cause they in a pine box, or locked behind bars.

Beef ain't the summer Jam on Hot Ninety-Seven.

Beef is the Cocaine and AIDS epidemics.

Beef don't come with a radio edit.

Beef is when the judge's callin you defendant.

Beef, it come with a long jail sentence,

Handed down to you in a few short minutes.

Beef is when your girl come through for a visit,

talkin bout her pregnant, by some other nigga.

Beef is high blood pressure, and bad credit;

Need a loan for your home and you're too broke to get it.

And all your little kids is doin' is gettin bigger,

You try to not raise them around the wild niggas.

Beef is when a gold-digger got your seed in her,

A manicured hand out, like, "Pay me nigga,

Or I'm tellin your wife,

And startin up some foul rumors that'll ruin your life."

Beef is when a gangster ain't doing it right,

And other gangsters then decide to do with his life.

Beef is not what these famous niggas would do in the mic,

Beef is what George Bush would do in a fight. (that's right)

Beef is not what Ja said to Fifty.

Beef is world and earth(?) not being here with me.

When a soldier ends his life with his own gun,

Beef is trying to figure out what to tell his son.

Beef is oil prices and Geopolitics;

Beef is Iraq, the West Bank, and Gaza Strip.

Some beef is big, and some beef is small,

But what y'all call beef is no beef at all.

Beef is real life, happenin every day,

And its real-er than the songs that you gave to K-Slay.

This has been a Black Star P.S.A.

From Mos Def, Pretty(?) Placo, Black Dante,

From the Black Star Embassy B to the K!

[AD]

Talib Kweli is interesting - most of his recorded stuff I really like, but I've seen him twice and it's totally sucked. Saw him open for the Beasties, granted that's not 'his crowd' at all, but he didn't bring much. Saw him with Mos Def as Black Star and Mos stole the stage, Kweli was always a beat behind in the flow, and seemed pretty out of it. Maybe he was drunk or something, who knows. '

Shit, should I have mentioned a philosopher? I Kant even think where to begin.

[kung]

I think you're getting somewhere with the bit about the Hippy Mafia YATS.

I realize that I'm totally offbase about the Jay-Z/Grateful Dead connection (you know because hard rappin' Deeps is here to say, your Jay Z trip is, uhm , so play(ed)) but what do you think S. Carter was talkin' about on IZZO.

Was herbin' em in the home of the Terrapins

Jay-Z - Izzo

[AD]

He's talking about Baltimore, home of the University of Maryland Terrapins, who he allegedly sold drugs to. But good try.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Orthodox Marxism collapsed as a reputable, integral theory back in the 1920s with the development of Western Marxism , whose members were promptly purged by the resident doctrinaire psychopaths under Stalin's direction. How could you justify calling your approach Marxist? I presume you consider your thinking more subtle than that.

[YearsAlongTheSea]

I think you're getting somewhere with the bit about the Hippy Mafia YATS.

Yeah, but your missing the many drastic differences between the tour kids that make up the "Hippy Mafia," (that doesn't really exist besides a loose, loose network of kids that know eachother through the grapvine) and the hip hop scene itself. Mainly though, if I can borrow your Jay-Z/Grateful Dead analogy for a second, hippies ran around selling drugs to SEE the Grateful Dead whereas the hip hop counterculture turns tricks and hustles to BE Jay-Z...

[kung]

I basically agree with your whole formulation with an exception or two YATS. First of all where did the acid come from? Cartels of some sort. Second of all there were monolithic figures one I know of personally from Montreal, who literally ran shit on Dead Tour from a distance.

Also when Jay sings 'Hove had to get the shallow shit up off him' in Lost Ones I think it's important just to acknowledge that it seems to me that money is only a means to an end for Jay. It doesn't seem like a primary concern.

Also thanks for the clarification on the Terrapins, I wondered about a Ball reference but I don't know Bball or college ball at all. Taking it to Maryland though is not much different than taking Canadian weed or acid across the border. It's just moving a commodity to a market where it has a higher value. All Jay did was take that shit to Baltimore- 'crackheads is buyin' all night'.

[Esau.]

Yeah, but your missing the many drastic differences between the tour kids that make up the "Hippy Mafia," (that doesn't really exist besides a loose, loose network of kids that know eachother through the grapvine)

Actually, don't forget about the "Eternal Brotherhood Of Love" also dubbed "the Hippie Mafia" back in 1972 or so. Formed in the late sixities they eventually became a serious conduit for marijuana, hash and LSD (eventually cocaine). But they were basically the folks who supplied most of North America with LSD for decades before pretty much either dying off (literally) or finally getting busted, some in or around as late as 1996.

[bokonon]

You in all likelihood like many in your field knowingly represent foul and corrupt individuals and though I would have made a good barrister it is not for me.

First off, no matter how foul or corrupt a person is they are entitled to a fair trial. To have a fair trial means you need a lawyer.

To defend a foul and corrupt person does not mean that you have to believe or plead that they were innocent, you must simply uphold the law so that they get fair treatment in the courts, in short to make sure justice is served.

Your juvenile understanding of this concept combined with your inability to form a coherent argument clearly illustrate that you would not have made a good lawyer. The fact that you were pretentious and ignorant enough to use the term barrister is quite comical. Barristers rarely have direct contact with their clients, whom tend to reside in England and Wales since we do not have a split profession legal system here. We have lawyers, not barristers and solicitors. Why don't you write for clarity and meaning instead of clouding your weak arguments with arcane diction?

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Why don't you write for clarity and meaning instead of clouding your weak arguments with arcane diction?

Because then he wouldn't succeed so well at getting people so riled up.

[i use the third-person there because I haven't yet had a second-person exchange, to the best of my memory.]

[allison]

Actually bokonon, in all fairness, "barrister" isn't really an "arcane" word.Lots of Canadian lawyers still use those words (barrister/solicitor) to describe their practice.

It's just there isn't a formal separation of them in Canadian common law.

Also, in the imaginary world where Luke would have been a lawyer,in all likelihood he would have been a barrister.The appeal for him I would imagine would be arguing the case in a court of law-not the more behing the scenes machinations of a solicitor.

I'd say Luke wasn't actually being inflammatory or misbegotten here-although his attack on Stone Mtn was still silly.

[bokonon]

I just didn't like his attack on lawyers in general. It's assinine to say that anyone doesn't deserve to be defended. But thanks for the heads up. And thanks for using little words. I still think that using the word barrister is arcane in this context though, as most people on this board do not have that intimate experience with the legal profession.

[kung]

For someone with such a deep respect for the written word Alexis (and I have a lot of respect for you whether you realize it or not) you seem not to be a very big fan of aphorism, satire or the arcane.

Allison's right I just would want to defend my little Gulliverian trial in the land of the Lilliputian's.

Can we keep this up folks?

I sincerely apologize. I will make a concerted effort not to insult anyone in this community or this community ever again. Please realize that for years its been a fucking gangbang on me and while I love a battle royale this shit is played out.

I'm interested in ideas and furthering ideas.

If people have ideas about the place of Hip Hop culture in the world today I'd like to hear them.

Thanks Esau for the Eternal Brotherhood bit- I know you'll never accept my apology. Well frankly I offered it in person and you almost clocked me at Hooters... but I do also apologize to you.

I'm not sure what else to say really. Offered and accepted hopefully.

[Esau.]

Well frankly I offered it in person and you almost clocked me at Hooters

Its shit like this that proves just how full of shit you really are, seriously.

I'm not the martial arts [color:purple]expert here. I was sitting down with my back to you, head down eating chicken wings when you gated off some bullshit apology. All I said was "get the fuck away from me" without ever looking at your face. You then just went off and sulked in a booth across the room by yourself.

As for the apology, I've accepted it three other times in the past, thats my limit.

[kung]

Fair enough. Lets leave this shit at the door. The community deserves better.

[Baj]

Kung your

played out.

I'm glad Alabama Man brought us something real and didnt check it at the door