Hip Hop: The New Rome

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I think the trick here is to say something hyperbolic and utterly contrary to anything one really believes, in order to provoke kung into advancing a position that one actually holds.

[AD]

I think the trick here is to say something hyperbolic and utterly contrary to anything one really believes, in order to provoke kung into advancing a position that one actually holds.

I strongly disagree!!

what the hell is happening

[bradm]

I think the trick here is to say something hyperbolic and utterly contrary to anything one really believes' date=' in order to provoke kung into advancing a position that one actually holds. [/quote']

I strongly disagree!!

what the hell is happening

Today's Opposite Day. By which I mean, of course, that it isn't Opposite Day.

Aloha,

Brad

[phishtaper]

WARNING

[Kanada Kev]

the "Costanza effect"

Edited April 10, 2007 by Guest

[Im going home Donny]

Narcissistic Personality Disorder DSM IV Criteria

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

(1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

(3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

(4) requires excessive admiration

(5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

(7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

(8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

(9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

nah...narcisists cover there hides much better.

[NewRider]

Narcissistic Personality Disorder DSM IV Criteria

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior)' date=' need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

(1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

(3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

(4) requires excessive admiration

(5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

(7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

(8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

(9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes[/quote']

nah...narcisists cover there hides much better.

LMAO!!!

[allison]

If anything, Western countries (esp. the USA) are the new Rome (in other words, we're living in the new empire).

Is this even true? To draw an analogy to Rome, one would have to have an imperial empire built on military success,able to cross political,geographical boundaries.The collapse of said empire would then have to be precipitated by usurpers at home ,while the powers were abroad.

The Us is a world power, but curiously inadequate at military success.Oh they enter the arena-but never get anywhere, no new land is conquered etc.The weakness on the homefront comes because of failure and scapegoating /villification(not unjustly)-not because the power is away and the mice can play.

Going out on a limb,perhaps a more fitting use of the Rome analogy,is along the lines of bradm's pervasive connectivity.The new "Rome" is built on a constant expansion of connectivity boundaries,individuals expanding across the ether,the new Rome is an empire of rampant individualism ravenously galloping across the globe, an imperialism of the mind.

But back home in the capital everybodies forgotten why we are here, what we are doing and how to live with each other.But both the senate and the populace-to quote AD-like beats and rhymes.Woot.

Fuck the violin for burntime music-hip hop is apparently where it's at.

[Tricky]

Allison could do with reading even half of these books when she's NOT whacked on coke

I've never even read even one book while "whacked" on coke Luke.

A conversation requires listening to other people, absorbing what they are saying, giving it weight, seeing if it fits,augments or contradicts your own thoughts and trying to understand both where the other person is coming from AND where they want to go.It also ideally requires some basic human decency.

This is not what you do.You deliver proclamations and then are seemingly astounded when people question what you are saying.

And then, instead of calmly trying to explain yourself, you throw insults, dodge questions and start name dropping.

Just answer the questions Luke.

Well it seems that the only way for Luke to truly understand this is to first overcome his mental illness. Until then there's really no hope in a conversation or friendly argument. We can expect rebuttals and name calling though.

[allison]

Mnn..I dont think the insults are Luke's mental illness- it's just him being a jerk.

It fairly predictably happens when someone makes a point he feels defensive about.

But shhh..we are calling spite SATIRE in this world.It's cause we read books and stuff.

In my case the jab had some validity-I have ,in the past, more than once been "whacked"on coke.I just haven't ever read a book in that state-nor on acid,mushrooms,e or whatever.

[bradm]

If anything' date=' Western countries (esp. the USA) are the new Rome (in other words, we're living in the new empire).[/quote']

Is this even true? To draw an analogy to Rome, one would have to have an imperial empire built on military success,able to cross political,geographical boundaries.

I agree with this, but would argue that "the American Empire" is more a cultural one than a military/political one. As a cultural empire, the USA is as pervasive in our world as Rome was politically/militarily in its world. In that context, small pockets of home-grown culture (e.g., hip-hop) are analogous to the Goths, which grew up at the fringe of Rome (outside of its central control) and ended up assisting with its fall.

Going out on a limb,perhaps a more fitting use of the Rome analogy,is along the lines of bradm's pervasive connectivity.The new "Rome" is built on a constant expansion of connectivity boundaries,individuals expanding across the ether,the new Rome is an empire of rampant individualism ravenously galloping across the globe, an imperialism of the mind.

I'd argue the opposite: the existing cultural/media empire is analogous to Rome (large, centrally controlled, etc.), while the new connectivity allows for on-line "Gothic" tribes to rise up, bypassing the central control and making it more and more irrelevant.

But 2000 years worth of separation makes analogies kinda tough to draw.

Aloha,

Brad

[StoneMtn]

I just opened this thread for the first time, as I was surprised to see who posted it.

Didn't Luke (Kung/Zero) already leave the board, officially and permanently, a while ago? Am I wrong?

[allison]

while the new connectivity allows for on-line "Gothic" tribes to rise up, bypassing the central control and making it more and more irrelevant.

Thats what I was sort of ineptly trying to get at-atleast in a way.That "Rome" isn't a country or place etc, but a lifestyle(your US culture) whose vanguard is the connectivity, and the nature and pervasiveness of that connectivity is integral to the empire's collapse.

[AD]

The latest Roots album is sweet.

Can't wait to hear the new Sage Francis, it's on the computer at home ready to hear.

the new el-p is decent, but not great.

[NewRider]

I just opened this thread for the first time, as I was surprised to see who posted it.

Didn't Luke (Kung/Zero) already leave the board, officially and permanently, a while ago? Am I wrong?

Yes he did but he keeps coming back. He needs to feel accepted somewhere.

[NewRider]

Posts in this thread are way more fun to read after you put them through the Ali G Translator

am in da midst of devotin my new life to my life bitch and to da nation of ip op. i believe dat ip op is da new rome and dat if da nation of ip op fails da entire civilized world will fail. dis is not some random conjecture. dis comes from a detailed understandin of da istory of egypt, da greek polis (city state), plato's republic and da greek tragedians and social commentators, roman civil life and developments throughout da middle ages, renaissance (the resurgence of neo-platonism) and up into da modern age. rome collapsed afta da assassitanion of caesar. rome needed a tyrant dig caesar to try to brin equanimity betweun da nobles and da people of rome: da senate and da people. it is no surprise dat our canadian and american system bof emulate da roman senate although da congress is more significant. in da american congress evun john mccain will tell yous washington is run by soft mula. in canada we is so incredibly corrupt, media congloremates dig bellglomebedia literally suppress information dat does not suit their stockholders whims, dat we ave soft mula flowin vigorously through our economy. erbal remedy and erbal remedy is da spine of our economy not da large and it feeds into property, government kickbacks, constabulury kickbacks, and all levels of da economy. da constabulury catch %1-2 of da erbal redemies and dat is wot organized crime tips them to. there is far more powerful erbal remedy cartels wiv a much eavia presence than da representavites dat fa instance da ell's angels ave at main bitch's park and parliament though. these erbal remedy dealers can poison and pollute our nations youf, create birf defects, cause suicides, corrupt grub and distritubion chains, pull as much fresh wata out of da province as dey can bottle and poison da existin wata supply wiv chemical and agricultural runoffs. we can do nothin to stop these erbal remedy dealers and corporate polluta coz our govenment is but a figurehead. in any case da illicit erbal remedy economy is far more substantial than da agricultural, automotive or manufacturin bases. which is to say nothin of ow main mans of all those economies, particularly main bitch's park and bay street, pay substantial parts of their own incomes into da erbal remedy and riding the punanni trade. me is glad dey do dis coz i know many resourceful exotic dancers and ustlers who own several condos as a result and put their young main mun through montessori schools. don't feel wicked fa these wimin. a erbal remedy deala can only turn so many custies on and custies can only earn so much, steal so much, steal so much. a young ustla dig a danca can get a geeza to borrow a a auto or a ouse. now innit a ustle!

[Kanada Kev]

Hence my comparison of LukeKungZero to some sort of reoccurring rash

[NewRider]

geeza dat is for real disgustin plop.

[YearsAlongTheSea]

Fuck I'd love to see an 8 Mile throw down with Deeps, YATS, Popo, Allison and I

My money's on popo. Seriously, nobody's heard anything like it....

She's gonna blow your mind like a white kid from Detroit.... Or Guelph....

[djmelbatoast]

Eminem and Jay-Z.

The essence of underground music.

[Tricky]

Isn't complete ignorance of others opinions a form of mental illness? Isn't Luke just another one of those people who try really hard not to listen to others thought, opinions or feelings because he is better than anyone of us here? Isn't most of society like this...just another self absorbed individual needing attention or love that they never really get or have gotten?

I'm not judging, it just seems as though all of the posts that I have viewed by Luke have been a "pay attention to me and I'll tell you how much you all suck" kind of thread. Objectively.

[M.O.B.E]

[ verse 1 ]

This is a mission, not a small time thing

Let me tell you bout what happened when the phone went ( *ring* )

Well, I was coolin at the crib with this girl suzanne

And everything was goin just accordin to plan

When the phone rang - yo, I couldnt believe it

Told myself to ignore it, forget it, leave it

Just when things had started goin great

It rang again I said, hold up, wait

Picked up the phone, yelled, who the hell is this?

Somebody said, this is serious business

Theres a tape in the mailbox between your doors

Take the tape from the box, and put it in yours

I listened to the tape and my mouth just dropped

I picked up the phone, but the man hung up

It said, yo, this tape will self-destruct

I pressed the deck, but the tape was stuck

Oh well, what the heck, I just cleaned up the mess

Opened up the closet, got the bullet-proof west

Loaded up the sawed-off, the double-barrel

The rambo knife with the hunting apparel

Threw on the trench, kissed the girl good-bye

She said, special ed, dont go, you might die

Started cryin and huggin on me, so I shut her

I said, sorry baby, but I gotta do what I gotta

(youre on a mission)

Do what I gotta

This is a mission, not a small-time thing

[ verse 2 ]

Took the express on a air force jet

The thoughts in my mind broke me out into sweat

I was thinkin of the message again and again

In particular the name of lu chin chen

Yo, I landed in japan with intent to kill

You could tell I wasnt jokin by the look on my grill

Took a look at the picture of the man that I was after

A 5 foot 10 black-belt karate master

Knew where to find him, knew where he would be

I turned around and showin up mr. chen found me

I looked him in the eye with a stare so cold

I said, I came to revenge for the rhymes you stole

Now you must die, because that is my mission

He flipped back, got into a fighting position

The tiger style, the shit was wild

He threw his hands in the air, he started to smile

I said, you can smile now, but you wont for long

Cause sucker, youll be sorry that you stole my song

He said, choose your style, I broke fool, I said, what?

Pulled out the knife, tried to shove it in his gut

It didnt even cut, I flipped, I started buggin

Pulled out the hand gun, I shot a slug in

His chest, he said, buddah bless and stood proud

Out shot the bullet, mr. chen just bowed

So I shot him again - yo, I couldnt believe

Mr. chen caught the bullet in this two front teeth

Yo, he kicked me on the floor just like I was a child

I got fed up, I thought of flatbush style

Stood to my feet, threw my hands to the sky

Shaked him then, I faked him, then I caught him in the eye

He started stumblin, yo, I started wildin

He tripped, busted his lip, I started smilin

Knew he was defeated, but I wasnt done yet

So I shot him with the shotie, then I jetted in the jet

(youre on a mission)

Jetted in the jet

This is a mission, not a small-time thing

[kung]

I see this has devolved to psychiatric diagnosis- there's nothing I find more ignorant, abhorrent or insulting. By the way anyone who knows anything about Pyschiatry or Medicine knows that the DSM-IV is a highly controversial text and one that presumes that there is a pill for every form of conflict under the sun. See diagnosis like Oppositional something or other disorder, this means that teenagers argue with their parents - medicate the fuck out of those, uhm, adolescents learning to challenge authority rightfully.

I'm not going to apologize for shit because really no one's ever apologized for shit to me here. The thing is I have a daily moment by moment meditative practice that allows me to just abide in bad feelings I have about myself and negative feelings I internalize from others. I wonder if others here couldn't use such a question. Many of you type well before you've thought. Just pause for a second and think it through. Holding onto any emotion good or bad is a negative thing. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

You all seem to be making some gross assumptions about what 'Hip Hop' is. Well actually very few if any of you have bothered to even think of what hip hop is. That's because you waste your time on here all day like I did for years and you pour over post after post and your ego demands that you answer. This is the process of your ego enmeshing itself with others and the technology.

In any case what I am calling Hip Hop is really living life like a hustle- living life with hustle. I've got very little in the world I couldn't roll out on that morning like a pimp, dealer or whore. What do I need really in the world? I've got my world on my back. I can hustle and I can flow.

Also breakdancing which is likely the most difficult sport/martial art I've ever been involved in requires a really high level of physical fitness. So in addition to not wasting my time on here I walk about 10 kms. a day and I do from about 200-400 variable width push ups and a variety of other stretching and calisthenics - working with my own body weight. This is just a discipline I like to observe and it makes me respect the gift that my mind and my body truly is.

Hip Hop, and for instance Young Jeezy's hypnotizing creed 'Now I Command All You Niggas To Make Money', basically means DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME. African American youth, all youth whether in ghettos or suburbs have so much working against them that they can't afford to get sucked into corporate hustles. Hip Hop is basically saying love yourself son. You can't win this game son. So make money and give yourself the love that no one else will. You can only give this to yourself. The money is simply the historical means by which a revolution might be instigated. The money is symbolic of opportunities that were not wasted. The money is the product of industry in a Christian Family who works for the lord and for one another.

[intro]

DipSet

(Yep, yep, yep, yep)

San-tana, AYE

(Yep, yep, yep, yep)

Tick, tock

(Yep, yep, yep, yep)

Tick, tock

(Yep, yep, yep, yep)

Get on the grind like clockwork

Move that behind like clockwork

Keep it coming on time like clockwork

Get that clockwork (homie) make that clockwork (shorty)

You hear the sounds of the tick (tick)

You hear the sounds of the tock (tock)

You hear the sounds of the clock (tick)

(Tick and get it right) (tock)

Move to the sound of the tick (tick)

Move to the sound of the tock (tock)

Move to the sound of the clock (tick)

(Tick and get it right) (tock) yep yep

[Juelz Santana]

Now lemme see you get that block work rolling

Lemme see you get that clockwork going

Fiends copping by the clockwork flowing

All day and all night

Till them S.W.A.T. cops rolling

Or that clock, stop, going

Tick, tock, tick, tock, AYE

Homie, get on the grind like clockwork

Two for five or a dime, that's clockwork

Shorty

You ain't gettin off the hook that easy

Lemme see that clockwork

She said look that's easy

Move it around, and around, and around, and around like a clock chick

To the sound, of the sound, of the sound of the clock's tick

Tick, tock, tick, tock, AYE

Shorty, move that behind like clockwork

And spin around to the sound of how the clock work

[Chorus]

You hear the sounds of the tick (tick)

You hear the sounds of the tock (tock)

You hear the sounds of the clock (tick)

(Tick and get it right) (tock)

Move to the sound of the tick (tick)

Move to the sound of the tock (tock)

Move to the sound of the clock (tick)

(Tick and get it right) (tock) yep yep

Get on the grind like clockwork

Move that behind like clockwork

Keep it coming on time like clockwork

Get that clockwork (homie) make that clockwork (shorty)

[Juelz Santana]

The grind on paper chase

The block on day to day

Listen, I'm always ticking

Like the clock on Flava Flav

I could

Give cock, and don't stop giving

So can you

Wink wop, and don't stop whipping

And just

Make that clockwork (tick), get that clockwork (tock)

Shake that clockwork (tick), flip that clockwork (tock), shorty,

AY, do what you gotta do for that clockwork

Nine to five, side moves for that clockwork

If you a soldier, homie, get you a dojer homie

Mold the homie, tell him get that clockwork (homie)

AY, teach him how to mix that pot work

Right to left, all day, he'll get that clockwork

Listen

Tick, tock, tick, tock (homie) AYE

That's what I call clockwork for ya

Holla at me, I got work for ya

AYE

[Chorus]

[Outro]

I mean nigga

If you gettin' money

That's clockwork

If you hustlin', that's clockwork

Bitch, if you out there sellin' ass, that's clockwork

If you out there pimpin' homie, that's clockwork

Holla at me

AYE!

DipSet

Juelz Santana - Clockwork

Edited April 11, 2007 by Guest

[kung]

If you are so well read, and such an amazing writer, your satire WOULD be understood.

I think there's something to be said about the fact that if I wanted my satire to be understood discursively, I do not, I would seek payment for it and clarify my audience. In this case I'm just taking some time out of a very busy day to share some ideas I believe in. I guess I made some personal attacks and people feel the need to defend and that's okay. Again I think there's countless threads available for people to spout off shit. Hell there's a whole one about my 'wedding' that has nothing to do with me, or love, or compassion, or community or anything really.

In any case satirists shouldn't have to interact with the objects of their satire nor is it expected the, often hypocritical, objects of their satire will take it to well (see Apuleius, Swift, Michael Moore, Trey Parker/Matt Stone...)

Edited April 11, 2007 by Guest

[Velvet]

Geez Luke, you're insulted by my abhorrent ignorance? Aw shucks, maybe you should just go fuck yourself then, I dunno.

You, sir, are a complete waste of time. Good luck with your black belt in breakdancing.

Once again, fuck off you useless slice of garbage.