kung Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 So boredom seems to be reaching a fever pitch around here. I was lying awake last night thinking about something like this. It’s true of a lot of our bands that you have to be high or at least it helps if your high to appreciate the music. It seems there’s no band that’s more true of than the New Deal (or the Biscuits). It’s not necessarily a slight against them or their music, it just happens to be rooted in a really drugged out idiom i.e. rave. Not surprisingly the band are pretty straight edge and need to be to execute their craft. In order to appreciate or more likely participate in the form of dancing- drugs are a real benefit. You won’t find too many sober people at a rave and a New Deal show is the same way. The thing is that I don’t really get the sense that the band or in particular Jamie is too fond of this part of their audiences dynamic. So drugs seem to be at the core of the enterprise but they’re awkward bed fellows. It’s kind of a oroboros snake biting it’s own tail scenario hence the Circle of Kife. Straight edge band plays to gooned masses, gooned masses take more and more drugs, get less and less respect from artists…. It’s a kind of an academic question but any of you familiar with the boating accident (and fatality) after the Kee to Bala show will know that there is a hard cost to be paid for others foolhardiness. As I’ve said in the past any culture that condones wrecklessness even in pursuit of higher ideals is ultimately a wreckless culture. I’m sure the boys on the payroll will have something to say about this, in Farrow’s words ‘you just put yourself so out there’. I’m not sure what that means though. I think it just seems like I’m walking the plank because a lot of people are just rocking out on the pirate ship (unintentional lame ass Cheese reference). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberHippie Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 Interesting... The most recent time I saw tND, at the Harbourfront, I found that the show had a different feel to it than past shows I've seen. Maybe it was because it was a jazz festival event. But the whole thing felt much more like a performance as opposed to a mad rave. There seemed to be actual defined songs as opposed to an endless string of beats and framiliar riffs. I don't mean that as a slight at all, I've always enjoyed new deal shows. But in response to your point, I'm thinking that this different format, could be much more condusive to 'straight' fans being able to enjoy the toons. Do I think you need to be on something to enjoy the new deal? No. But... Yeah I think it definitly adds to the experience. It's all about focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 As far as The New Deal goes, I think dancing is really the focus. You have to dance to really enjoy what they do. The drug connection comes into play when you need to be at a certain level to dance and let go. I don't need any crazy chems for that...just some good 'ol beer. My belief is that to enjoy such energy driven music with so many dynamic levels, your body has to get involved for the transfer of the energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 "Its not so much the drugs that kill you. Its the looking for drugs. It killed Elvis." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 I was at the New Deal's CD release party thingy last night at Cobalt and they had the CD on repeat, repeat the whole night. I had no idea until BF pointed it out to me that it was the same CD.. as some songs sound ultra new deal-y to me and the others are soooo diff from the "new deal norm" what with vocals and all that. Parts of it I quite liked. New Deal live though bore me now unless I am "aided" in some shape or form (to Kung's point above). For the past 5 or so times I've seen them (excluding Harborfront) I have left part way through the show. The Harborfront show was more varied than usual and is a step in the right direction I think if they intend their fans to grow along with them. Regardless, they are all extremely talented musicians.... but oh what I would give to see a One Step Beyond (original line-up) reunion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry jr. Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 The thing is, most people are high at most "traditional" jam band shows too. Different drugs for different music for some, maybe, I don't know...pot is good for me (throw in a drink or five). I admire the folks who don't feel they need it, but for others it's just a matter of altering their consciousness. When you start talking about house music or anything heavy with rhythm, keep in mind there is a long tradition of people either using that to get into a trance or getting a little boost from a drug of some sort to get into that zone. I'm not so sure the guys in TND really care what drugs their audience members are or are not doing, so long as people aren't falling over at the shows. They may play "straight," but that doesn't mean they're anti-drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberHippie Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 quote:Originally posted by M: Regardless, they are all extremely talented musicians.... but oh what I would give to see a One Step Beyond (original line-up) reunion.... Amen to that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 I echo mary and Kung. I'm bored of the New Deal and that's probably because I do less drugs now than I used to, and because their music hasn't strayed much from their early days. And I like to dance as much as the next guy but it's going to take more than the chitty chitty bang bang rhythms and copious effects to make me get down on it. I thought they were comatose at the Bluefest but maybe I was the only one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay sanislo Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 cyberhipper you beat me to that quote. one step beyond kicked ASS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gentlemonkey Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 Interesting stuff Luke.. The New Deal would probably like to think that people are as likely to get off on their show/music straight as if completely rolled. THis is probably true for some, untrue for others. Its every musicians desire that people can like their 'stuff' as much as when listening with straight ears as when completely bent on molly. The reality with Dance music is that either you are into that kind of music (dj or live band version) and you can appreciate it and enjoy it no matter the situation- or you're not, and you need chemical convincing. I didn't get it the first time I went to an afterhours party in the early 90s, but after doing the drugs and learning about what people were digging on, I got into it, and learned how to enjoy it and what there was to enjoy. and don't need chems to enjoy it now. but Im also not always in the mood to dance. For example, one of the best new deal shows i ever saw was outside the National Arts Gallery.. it was 1 in the afternoon, sunny, lots of families and there was nothing going around but water... danced my ass off. as per them not being fond of that 'druggie' dynamic of their audience- i can't believe that. why poo into the hand that feeds you most of the energy they get back at shows? unless they are club-snobs.. hope not! but I'm sure every band that has a pigeon holed audience can have the relationship grow into a love/hate thing. I've heard some choice trey heresay tour-rat quotes.. anyway, who cares really!? back to work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gentlemonkey Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 oh yeah kung- the subject for this made me laugh... i pictured a large weird disney musical.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottieking Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 I'm not so sure I concur with the reckless culture statement. I think for the most part, the people who attend the majority of shows, small and large, lead fairly nonmenial existences. I believe that this culture is more about pure escapism. When I'm in a venue or arena, I don (most times) my orange hat, take drugs and skip around like the only thing I was meant to do in life was dance and marvel at the music before me. I never feel more like a neo-hippie than when I'm on an adventure. The drugs are part of that adventure, that escapism. Surely the bands can understand (and have no doubt experienced) that sort of feeling at a show before. Were the concern lies for me, and I'm sure the bands as well, is in the people were escapism has become a way of life;indeed life itself. Those people are doing not only in the shows, but after, in the morning, the afternoon, at work or perhaps in any and all places but. But this is not the majority, IMO. It should too be noted sometimes the audience finds itself in the all too uncomfortable position of worrying about the reckless behaviour of their favourite bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianphan Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 I agree with larry jr., gentlemonkey & scottieking. In my opinion, it's all about energy flow between the audience and the band. How that energy is created is of little concern. That being said, if someone is out of control and interfearing with everyone elses good time, that can create a rift in the vibe. From my perspective, getting really wasted is not an option, because it prevents me from being able to keep up with the band. I need just enough mood enhancement (read: beer) to still be sharp witted but loose enough to go with the flow without second guesing myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 what came first? the doses or the band? I find a lot of sharing going on between band and audience at shows I would be inclined to ingest any form of enhancement particularly when it comes to improvised music... the gypsy's of turn of the century Greece used to upset the locals because they liked to partake in strange substances at their musical gatherings and enjoyed the company of prostitutes and other, so called, lesser elements of society I don't partake every time I see a band that is improvisationally inclined as to me its really important that the environment is comfortable a) to me to those around me... I'm not going to enjoy myself if my rolling eyes and quirky dance are making someone feel threatened I totally prefer bands that you can see either way, enhanced or not... usually I find that you can gain a pretty interesting mindset from just being part of the musical experience of a talented improvisational band without assistance... but then if things are going really well I often get the urge to jump in with both feet and see how interesting and involved it can become (infering "drop now!") in either case, be the music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberHippie Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 This may sound cheesey, but this is something I've found. Once you've been in those altered states, and have discovered new ways of experiencing the music, you can do the same without the substance. I'm mean sure if someone passes me a J, I probably take a puff, but I can enjoy the music just as much and feel the same kinda high without it. Taking the substance is just a short cut. In our society we have a tendecy to take short cuts, well, because it's just easier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted October 9, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 Apart from the obviously inflammatory title, notice there is a question mark, these comments could be made about any number of bands. I'm glad people took it that way and responded to the idea rather than the rhetoric. Again this is just an intuition but I get the sense, and that's all it is, that someone like Jamie doesn't always have the highest opinion of the audience. Think about the view from their perspective, mashed out jaw clenching ragers with the whole sweaty pasty palour to boot. It just seems to me given say his level of talent and obvious chops that he could be getting recognition in different contexts. The Deal does seem like a limited idiom for these chops players. I guess I see someone like Jamie or the Deal as similar to the Slip guys, you know that not to far below the surface they covet more legitimate recognition and recognition farther afield then their frothy inner circle. We never hear much about those two seeming one off side projects Jamie's been in (Sucker Punch and...) but those are also rooted in the jam realm. A friend of mine and Jamie worked on a '30s style musical once which always left me with the impression that he had broad and eclectic tastes. I'm sure given all the different types of festivals and events they play they probably get alot of different types of audiences so maybe the point is redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 whether a crowd is lipped or not I think something that'll wear down a band at times will be blind allegiance... you play a half assed jam, forget where you were towards the end and just sort of end it and then the crowd freaks out like its the second coming agreed Jamie definately has a broader sense of music than just straight techno jams... I too miss the original line-up One Step shows... Jamie got to do a lot more funk and sit in the back more and then you got to see him rip apart his moog akin to Jimmy Page lettin loose in The Song Remains The Same 'jambands' jam... like sitting around with some friends late at night sometimes its a great jam and sometimes its better to hang it up and throw some tunes on the stereo... I hope Jamie'll get involved in some of his other musical curiosities to maintain a balance that keeps him happy no matter what style he's playin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 Although, in the tND context Jamie can play rock, disco, funk, reggae, electronica, dub, jazz and all sorts within the same set. For some people it all sounds like "trance". Those people should listen harder. The interesting thing about Shields is that he came to the tND the least knowledgable of or interested in "house" or "dance" music (according to interviews). I think for him it was something new and fresh and exciting and what more could a musician want. Plus he still gets to compose. And, kung, you may have a point about whether or not tND are occasionally put off by the consumption habits of their audiences but I would remind everyone else that's only speculation and we'll probably never know what the score is on that front. I think each of the three guys would have different feelings. Jamie knows what the score is, he was an enthusiastic Phish fan in the early 1990's and Gypsy Sol surely faced some pretty whacked out crowds in their day. As for the intoxicant / music-experience relationship, we live in a post Acid-Test musical environment where the lines between drug experiences and musical experiences are deliberately blurred. That's nothing new and long may it thrive, as long as we take care of your friends and ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Paisley - I think the dead had plenty to say about blind allegiance from their fans. I'm reading Dennis Mcnally's biography of the band and he talks about their reaction to people cheering them on in the midst of a horrible Jerry solo (in his more drug-addled days in the 80's and 90's). Phil in particular was extremely harsh, maybe because he prided himself and his expertise or simply because having permanently pleased fans relinquishes the need to work on your act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 yeah, I stopped going to Dead shows in '91 because of that... it broke my heart to have people who didn't give a shit yelling their heads off drunk... shows I saw up to '90 were so beautifully respectful (I'm sure there were other previous low periods but I'm not THAT old ) on that note, the crowd on tour this year were great... love a crowd that'll laugh good-heartedly when it all turns to fudge toffee "come on Joan" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shitidiot Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 all this talk about drugs make's me want to get high. well ok, higher then i'm now!! i think that any dance/jam band would rather have a room full of stoned out druggies dancing there ass off. then a bunch of uptight, stuck up, tight asses standing there waiting for the band to make a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 kung...how often have you rehashed the drug crap? yes i know that some people need drugs to like music...too bad some people feel the need rather than desire... So! I wonder how much the new deal party after their shows? I'd love to rip it up with those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmellyPants Posted October 16, 2003 Report Share Posted October 16, 2003 IF JASS IS LIKE ZEN THEN THERE IS NO BEST, OR IS THERE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurly Posted October 16, 2003 Report Share Posted October 16, 2003 quote:Originally posted by shitidiot: i think that any dance/jam band would rather have a room full of stoned out druggies dancing there ass off. then a bunch of uptight, stuck up, tight asses standing there waiting for the band to make a mistake. Well said!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted October 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2003 I thought this one was dead in the ground but if it's still kicking... Sure call it rehashing the drug crap call it whatever you want. I think the people who responded took the core of what I was saying and ran with it. It's an odd thing that almost every 'jam'band I can think of doesn't party at all (at least before the show). In particular I wouldn't call the New Deal guys partiers by any means. I actually mean this as something of a compliment. It's impressive that these stone cold sober bands are able to create this psychedelic transcendental textural space that we often need substances to perceive or enter. Your just playing the groupie punk 'touch me feel me love me'. How many times are you gonna rehash the 'quit slaggin' the scene braaaah'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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