MarcO Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 .... well, I write this not as an invitation to lay into Phish but as a frustrated fan of the 4 piece Vermont band called Phish. I spend a bit of time trolling the Phish boards like phantasytour.com/phish and The Rhombus and rec.music.phish, mainly as a fan looking for little nuggets of rumours or stories or enlightened opinion, just like any fan of any band would do. But here's an example of the kind of response typical in those communities, this one in response to a post stating that Trey and Tom Marshall are currently involved in one of their songwriting retreats. I won't bother to provide attribution to this nonsense but this is what I encountered in opening the thread: "well someone should go up there and stop them from turning out any more crappy, shitty, love ballads. everything they write anymore comes out sounding worse than my ass after eating eggs doused with baked beans and hot sauce. " Nice, eh? I gotta say, I'm not one by any means to gloss over areas where I think there's problems with a band I dig. Whatever. Not everything works. But I feel like in the past few years it's gotten worse and worse. Since 1999 it's been a "prove it to me" attitude being displayed. And it's funny because these fans complain about shit for ages and then replace one complaint with another and suggest they now miss the first "problem". So it's like, Trey Band sucks, why doesn't Trey play with Phish, blah blah blah..... couple of years later, it's Phish sucks, Trey was way better with Trey Band, they're the shit. It's like Round Room sucks, the new songs suck, everything just sucks. I don't get it. I think it's a vocal minority clogging up these message boards. Obviously, the proof is in the ticket sales, and that's not a problem for Phish these days. I mean, even if SUmmer Tour only sold at 90% capacity, those are still good numbers. Am I the only one out there that is just happy to see a band keep moving, trying new things, taking care to keep things together and appreciates fresh material and new jams? Sometimes I think so although I know that's not the case. Sorry for the rant, I think I've just had it with finnicky Phish fans who don't appreciate a good thing when they're given it. Death to those who still wish it was Fall 1994 for Phish. Last time I checked, it's 2003, Phish are still with us, writing new material and playing pretty well, oftentimes, extremely well indeed. That's all I ask. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shainhouse Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 nice rant dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 Ooooh, do I hear you sing MarcO. I have been doing the same sort of internet-thingy for a number of years, and since 1998, I first noticed all that criticism getting worse. AND, its getting much more worse. I havent been able to do the rec.music.phish thing for years. I couldnt take it anymore. Its funny though, people love to complain about Phish if its not what they think it should be. As soon as a particular complaint starts, its gainend oxygen, eventually being born into a beast. People love to jump on the bandwagon. You arent the only one that likes to witness evolution slowly evolve. I think once this past summer tour hit the mid-way mark, we were starting to listen to a band that had worked its rust off, and was once again expanding on its wealth of music and jams. I dont understand how I read people complaining about particular jams, and I find them some of the best jams I have heard from Phish in years. Cripes, the Scents and Subtle Sounds from Camden is more than anything you can imagine a band giving you, and people complain about it................long and short, I look for those nuggets as well, but I cant waste my time on most of those Phish boards anymore. Its all too much of the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay sanislo Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 i agree with you marco, and i say to those people IF YOU THINK THEY SUCK then why are you still going to there shows......STAY HOME it just sounds super hipicriticle (sp) when some dude says they suck shit now and then he just finishing telling you that he went on the whole summer tour, i dont get it. If they suck then why spend money to tour with them. My 2 cents anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister slippery Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 people are dumb. they need to be bitten by something very poisonous. my .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRage Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 Been a while for me here...hope my two cents still buy me a gumball... I blame the whole thing on the Disco Biscuits, New Deal, Particle etc...These are not bad bands, by any means. I love Particle. But it seems during the hiatus many Phans started getting into that fast, always-up jam sound and when Phish comes back and puts out a mature, beautiful album with many numbers that are slightly less manic than say Goliath, a lot of people could not relate. At IT I saw many of these fans wandering around, looking lost, like they were just waiting for 2001 only, and nothing else would do it. I say, lay off the speed, pop a tab or go sober and songs like Bug or Seven Below or Waves will blow you away (they knocked me on my ass). It doesn't matter the platform cause Phish can jam anything into the stars but it won't always make you boogie hard. If that is what these people want, then I hope they just fuck off and get it somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 I think that the problem is that generally, people do not like change. People want what they know, even in the jamband community. Eventually, they embrace the change - but usually not until the *next* change occurs, so they have something new to bitch about. People suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 quote: Originally posted by tonyrage: I say, lay off the speed, pop a tab think I found me a new signature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 Marc0, That is probally the top of my list for reasons why I bash some "phans". I have been asking the same questions about some "phans" for years.All I ever seem to read somtimes is folks saying shit about their playing or what they didnt play...whatever.... I my opinion,I have found that alot of "phans" are really really ungrateful for the music that they are treated with,many seem to feel that they are owed or get mad when fans of other music enter their little wonderworld(as shown above by Mr.Rage)by blaming other bands or the drugs for folks stepping outta of this "Phish is the greatest,only band in the world" trip...its called expanding ones cultural horizons,instead of remaining narrow minded thinking that Phish or GD are the only ones that do what they do,just as I saw during the beginning of the 90's with some of the Deadheads I met on tour,there was a huge difference between the tours I did in the mid eighties compared to the early ninties,Brett bashin' etc etc,never could grasp why folks would turn on somthing or someone they claim to love so much,or to blame others for the new direction that fans or the bands take as new music enters our lives,shit 5 years ago you would never had caught me at ANY show that had anything similar to a "trance" beat happening,let alone when I was touring with GD for all those years,but hey my tastes grew as I was exposed to newer talent and interpedtations,cross-overs(If ya will)of music.And I am extremely grateful to the folks who came from other genres of music and introduced me to new ways to musically expand my mind and listening enjoyment. I personally like listening to alot of Phish's music,but I will not and stress "will not" even try to express my true thoughts or feelings why I dislike so much about them(not meaning to bash em either)because of the holier than thou attitude that many "phans" seem to take when someone gives their opinion on the band or its fan base,which I think is not a grateful group of souls alot of the time.I remember reading on this site and the Hub after the hiatus was over all the so called "hardcore" fans bashing them for whatever reason,one that sticks out in my mind(and I cannot fathom why this would be an issue)someone crying about how they played "Friday" encore on a saturday night ...I just don't get that at all. Just seems that the "scene" seems to be the priority to alot of the folks I meet that just go off in anger when they read a bad reveiw about Phish,I also have recieved many a email over my comments,threatening my well being,or just dumbass come backs about how the music I like or love sucks.Instead of intelligently asking me why I think what I do or what brought me to feel the way I do,I personally like when I am told why a person doesnt like Dylan or GD,if I was to be surrounded by people who all had the exact same opinion or tastes as me on music,I would probally have to push broken glass slivers under my eyelids to deal with the boredom. One question though: quote: Originally posted by TonyRage: It doesn't matter the platform cause Phish can jam anything into the stars but it won't always make you boogie hard.If that is what these people want, then I hope they just fuck off and get it somewhere else. Then why all the blame on those other bands then?in that realm of thinking I could sit here and blame Phish for the noddle headed chemical heads during the late eighties and early nineties that wandered around the GD lots bitchin about Brett or Bob etc and saying "it needs more energy like Phish",but I won't do that because I know its not true,because without meeting some of those lot rats,I may never have heard some of the different music I listen to now,(ok,well the interent helps the most now,but not me in 1989-1990,no computer for me until last year or so). No offence Tony,just a question,since that kinda stuff(like what ya mention) is part of the reasoning I use to poke at "phans" with my comments about Phish shows or scene,just seems alot of that goin on from Phish fans,on a number of different sites I roam around on.I just think its the vast selction of music nowadays and the great way that some different genres of music have meshed to create some really great shows and introduce us to so many great new folks who we would possibly never have met or thought we would be friends,due to the whole seperation crap that so many scenes do have,ours being one(at times) that is so unjudging and welcomeing of new comers,but at the same time,harsh and calis to "newbies" who just dont know or are asking what many who have been around would consider silly questions. Anyway,I say be grateful for the magic many of the bands we listen to honor us with and remember,at one time we were "newbies" to a scene that was already well established and the music we brought to it was also alien and abrasive to the older heads.Everything starts somewhere. Theres my ramblin' rant for the week. Keep smilin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinw Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 Good thread Marco. I have a real issue with the so called "phans" as well. These folks who bash the band are the same ones who criticize everyone for not wearing the cool clothes or looking dready enough or whatever. The number of people who are online bashing the band and saying everything sucks are such a very very very small minority of the Phish fanbase that it is laughable. The way online chat folk act, you would think they controlled the crowds and bands thoughts and moves. The fact is that the online community is very small compared to the whole fanbase, although they are very vocal (at least behind their computer screen!). I have been listening to Phish solidly now since about 1994 and I have heard a great deal of their work - studio albums, live releases, live shows, etc - some of it great, others parts of it crappy. I would list Phish as my favourite band although I do have various different bands I enjoy and I spread my music appreciation around. Some of the recent stuff Phish has released is excellent. I love a lot of the new songs and some of the slower stuff is especially nice. The ballads Trey has done both with TAB and Phish recently are great. I love "Friday" for example. It is a ctachy little tune that gets stuck in your head. TAB's "Sunday Morning" is another one. I am also a huge fan of raging rockers like Chalkdust or covers like Frankenstein, as well as enjoying spacey jammy tunes like Scents and Subtle Sounds, Slave, etc. A few years ago I stopped reading online reviews, and rec.music.phish and pretty much everything else, because of the ridiculous things I was reading there. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but when people are being critical just to be negative and not pointing out the positive side of the show or album you have to wonder what they are thinking. Unfortunately I think the majority of the folks in the Phish online world are pretty young. I have found much more useful critical analysis of songs and albums and shows by speaking in person to older folks at shows or a select group of online folks who really know their stuff. I don't need to hear from some dready kid who has seen 3 shows all in 2003 how much something sucks now because 1994 was "so dank, dude". I know that I have seen and heard a lot of Phish, and 2003 was some of the best I have ever witnessed. I saw 8 shows in 03 and they were amazing (Vegas, Worcester, Deer Creeks, IT), as well as 2 TAB shows (Hammerstein). 2003 was a great year for Phish and who knows what will happen in the Fall and New Years runs? My advice is to not worry about the kids posting negative junk on the Internet. Use your own judgement and the judgement of those who you can trust and you're laughing. Seems to work fine for me. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 This makes me think of Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons. He's the consummate critic of his various shows and comics, i.e. star trek etc. Yet it's entirely armchair and doesn't REALLY mean he hates star trek. It actually means he would break down and commit suicide if they took star trek off the air, because he's so deeply immersed in it and can't imagine a life without the ability to watch it, cheer it, or bash it. I suspect it's very much the same for lots of phans, and while some of them are perpetually looking for something that just isn't there, or getting bummed out because they didn't hear the song they wanted, I think most of them are just making conversation and being critical of what they love so much. Despite all the criticism and bashing of the band, the ticket sales haven't faltered have they? (I'm not in the know with Phish things) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRage Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 "No offence, tony" -- I like that... I take no offence from your comments, because they are based on a total misreading of my post. I blame myself though, for not being clear enough. I am not only into Phish. I have nothing against dancier jambands. In fact, I love to dance so much, that at times, I would prefer to see Particle or New Deal to Phish just so I can boogie. Phish these days does not do the dancy thing as often. What they do, however, is play beautiful, mature and intricate jams. I have no problem if people want to go to shows of different bands. I cannot beleive it would be any other way, nor would I have it any other way. The problem, as expressed above, exists only in those fans who come for the scene more than than show; mill about talking and looking quite distracted during the show and therefore taking away from my personal enjoyment; obviously compare every moment with their favourite band; and people who hope for a miraculous time shift that will cause Phish to exist perpetually in 1997 and play only "da funk". These are the people I thin both of us were referring to Easu and although I have no problem tuning them out. I still think it would be best if they would just give it up and go to a rave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elemeno Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 the only thing worse than "so called phans" who bash phish to no end is the "true phans" who defend phish to no end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 the ones that defend them to no end are actually funnier than the ones who do nothing but dog them... i know people who would actually say good things about a 45 minutes S&SS... i also know people who complained about the Cypress Midnight>sunrise set, because they didn't encore...!!! (and i am serious) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMack Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 But come on now... there has to be something said for the fans (like myself) that bash Phish for the pure enjoyment of it. I mean seriously, its the easiest way to get someone going. Like stealing candy from a baby. Plus is keeps the "phans" honest, and encourages them to see other music. I like phish, but I get off on riding people about how much they like phish and bashing phish. Maybe I'm a little demented, but its fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 What MoMack said...surrender to the phlow-bee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 Now,I may have misread some of your first post where you say you blame this band or that band,and mention if thats what people want they should just fuck off... quote: Originally posted by tonyrage: [QB]The problem, as expressed above, exists only in those fans who come for the scene more than than show; mill about talking and looking quite distracted during the show and therefore taking away from my personal enjoyment;[QB] It sounds as if you are a little too concerned with what is goin on around you with the other folks then enjoying the show itself,why else would you notice this?Who cares if they are distracted.As long as they are not in our faces about it,then I do not even pay attention to what others are doin. Maybe its just me,but in twenty years of goin to shows I have never been too concerned about folks talkin' or wanderin 'round or have let it take away from my enjoyment,I am there for the show and all those other folks in my opinion are also part of the show. But hey thats just me,maybe I should pay more attention to that stuff then the music next time...I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 I just have to add: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRage Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Esau13: It sounds as if you are a little too concerned with what is goin on around you with the other folks then enjoying the show itself,why else would you notice this?Who cares if they are distracted.As long as they are not in our faces about it,then I do not even pay attention to what others are doin. I admire your patience and ability to focus. But you must admit that when the entire audience is into the show, and focussing themselves, it can only add to your experience. I was at a J-5 show here in Perth last week and the audience was so on top of every note and word and beat that I was just taken away. It was easily one of the best concerts I have been soley due to the excitement of the crowd which excited the band and went up in a cycle. I have had similar experiences at JGB shows and at the Spearhead show in Toronto this summer and can come close to that at an indoor Phish show where the volume of the sound and the darkness of the venue blankets the actions and voices of those who are not really "there". Plus, at an indoor show, many of teh scenesters are outside getting ready for post-show capitalising. At a festival they are all over the showgrounds and in your face while the music is playing. It is fine I suppose if people come for the party, but a certain amount of respect must be paid to the band and audience. Maybe after "20 years of going to shows" I too will have slowed my mind enough (not in a negative way) to slice through the distractions, but at the moment I cannot, and I find it obnoxious and would rather not have people at the show if they are not going to be respectful. MTC, leave it at that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stamos Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 I'm with you colin. As much as you want to read a review, just don't. My advice is to spend more time LISTENING to phish than reading about somebody else's experience. [i mean come on, how many "best show ever" posts do you see....they're all over the place.] Too many idiots with a keyboard and a heartbeat. Download the show and check it out with friends and discuss, not idiot strangers on the net. my $.02. Stamos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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