Davey Boy 2.0 Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 "How about that Phil Lesh" Mickey Hart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Low Roller Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 There's something about David Grisman that just creeps me out. First of he puts off a really weird vibe in the Grateful Dawg DVD. I recently bought the Anthem to Beauty DVD, in which Grisman does a quick cameo to explain that if he were invited to the American Beauty sessions sooner, they would have given him a longer part in Ripple, and then proceeds to play Ripple "the way it should've been"... which was no improvement to the version on the album, let me tell you that much. It just seems to me that he acts like a very bitter man who thinks his deserved legacy is being cheated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermontdave Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 He's a great mandolin player, almost as good as Booche. But all these dudes in the Dead scene and its perifery all seem to be getting crotchety in their old age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 ... Respectfully taken from Jambands.com , the newest issue ... picking up after Grisman gets his $10,000 Rex Foundation check sponsored by Garcia and their subsequent reunion .... M.S. So, when you made most of these recordings that have come out did you really set out to make recordings for albums or was it just jams and playing that you just decided to let the tapes roll on? D.G. It was like nothing else I have done before or since. We decided to record things but it wasn't a formal thing like you fill out your W4 forms. It was just free-form. We were conscious that we recording and we were recording in multi-track. It operated like "are you ready to do another take." We had a lot of focus on it because it was being recorded there was a certain amount of striving for a good take, but we had a kind of interesting role reversal. I'm usually more of a perfectionist than Jerry. The kind of material we were playing wasn't for the most part difficult. It was very casual for me and it loosened me up because I am used to playing this arranged stuff, my scene which is a lot of detail and is more difficult kind of music. And this was just coming back to all these different styles and songs that we used to play and to me it was more fun and I could be looser with it. I think Jerry just wanted to get it right. M.S. Right, Sometimes Jerry's electric playing was all over the place. I think once in an interview Mickey Hart said something like Jerry hits so many bad notes but when he hits it right he is amazing. D.G. Well he shouldn't talk. If he'd had notes attached to them drums he wouldn't even have been in the category. I personally don't think any of them guys [the Grateful Dead] are in Jerry's league at all. They ought to be very grateful. I don't think any one of them would have made it without Jerry, perhaps with the exception of Phil. M.S. Jerry had such a wide musical vocabulary.... D.G. Don't even get me started. They do him a big disservice. They dump on him a lot. They ought to be grateful. He gave them a life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 I wouldn't contradict him, though - really, none of the other members were in Garcia's league, with the possible exception of Phil Lesh. Garcia was one of the greatest musicians of the century. Period. It's not necessarily a knock against the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Furthermore, Grisman is probably sick and tired (as am I) of hearing Mickey Hart flap his gums about every possible topic under the sun that even remotely concerns the Grateful Dead. Shut up for a while, Mickey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 That's your best answer yet Hamilton.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRage Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 First off, and this is hard to say being someone who modelled his early playing on Phil, I don't know if I agree with Phil being in any league, let alone Jerry's. Phil could not have succeeded as a bass player in any other context imo simply for the fact that he never really played bass lines (with some notable excpetions). He just went off all the time which is what made it work with the two drummers and the noodling of Garcia and Weir. You could compare Phil to John Paul Jones or John Entwhistle in that they all played a lot of different notes, but where both John;s held down the groove ina serious way, Phil's rhythms were not those of a bass player. Still my biggest influence in my younger years and I would not have the Dead any other way. Second, speaking about Grateful Dawg, does anyone know the real story about why Jerry and David didn;t talk for ten years. I thought it was classy of his kid to omit that in the film, but it made me soo fucking curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermontdave Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 I think it's talked about in the book by Dennis Mcnally. It had something to do with Old and in the Way and how Grisman felt screwed by Garcia. I don't remember excactly, but it's in 'A Long Strange Trip'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frothingbadgerboy Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Ah, the politics of creative interaction, been there, done that! Despite being able to make beauty together when the egos are honest and open, it is very easy to create ugliness and stupidity when those egos mix/combine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Not to classy on Grisman's part IMO.... I mean, Jerry did not feel that way about the rest of the boys, and if you're talkin riding coat-tails, Grisman shouldn't really talk, his great great grandchildren will have their college paid for because he pressed "record" every time Jer came over to jam. Nothing wrong with that, but maybe a little more respect to the hand that fed you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Yeah, but David Grisman (unlike Mickey Hart) never claimed that Garcia "hits so many bad notes". Don't forget that Grisman is responding to something, not just spouting off randomly. Mickey's statement might be accurate if you're looking at a specific period - like '94-'95 - but it's idiotic if he's referring to his entire career. Of course, with the information we've been given, it's really hard to tell. Still, I'm tired of hearing Mickey act as the final authority on everything, regardless of the other content of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 The 60's bliss/love/peace/fuck your neighbour vibe left GD town years ago, way way way before Jerry died. I'm sure I'd have a big ego if I was any part (no matter how small) of the Grateful Dead phenomenon, and even if I knew I was a shitty player I probably wouldn't see the need to let on about it. Grisman is probably still bitter that he wasn't a full-fledged member, I'm sure Vince Welnick and all those other temp workers have taken potshots at the musical abilities of the core members too, which just reaks of jealousy. I'm not going to step up and dispute Mickey or Bobby Weird's ineptitudes...Mickey I couldn't tolerate and Bobby laid out the carpet for Jerry musically. But he was easily replaceable as a rhythm guitarist. I can see where TRage is coming from though, I agree that Phil was pretty exploratory at points where he maybe could have held down rhythm. Maybe I'm the only one who finds the Philbombs kind of boring. He does have his moments though: the solo in 8-27-72 Dark Star is pleasing to the ears. An earlier post about the merits of the past and present members still rings true to me: without Jerry, there is no Grateful Dead. Without Phil there's basically a shitty bar band left to fend for itself, probably more suited to playing Casino Rama than Molson Amphitheatre. P.S. Is Jimmy Herring part of "The Dead" these days? He was incredible with Phil and Friends IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Hey tonyrage - Just out of curiosity, why have you chosen an image of the king of Thailand as your avatar? I was recently in Bangkok on the king's birthday, and it was quite a fucking celebration... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Weir was "easily replaceable"?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 I always thought that the Dead produced some of their greatest material when they had only one drummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gentlemonkey Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 quote: Originally posted by hamilton: Hey tonyrage - Just out of curiosity, why have you chosen an image of the king of Thailand as your avatar? I was recently in Bangkok on the king's birthday, and it was quite a fucking celebration... For a second i thought it was william hung.. 'she bang she bang!!' tonight 8pm- American Idol reject special! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple foot Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Phil would of been involved with music without the dead. Maybe not a household name but he definately was devoting his life to music before he met jerry and joined the dead. I'm sure the rest of the band is grateful for what jerry did for the dead. That being said I think Mickey can say whatever he wants about jerry's playing. They played so many shows together he's seen first hand the best and worst jerry had to offer. Mickey is a kind of a bonehead for saying that because playing as much as they did with as much improv/free form style your not going to get notes that sounds good all the time. Grisman comes off pretty cocky himself. Saying the "material wasnt' that difficult" because "his style is more arranged." Right there he's saying jerry's playing is more of an improvisational style and therefore more apt for off notes. same point mickey made. The dead wouldn't have been anything with out jerry and vice versa. Grisman probably wouldn't be sittin on a 10,000 $ check if it weren't for jerry and that is due to the success of the dead. He should be grateful for the other members bringing noteriety to traditional bluegrass artists such as himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 good point on Grisman's being lucky to ride the Dead popularity to extra fame of his own personally would rather listen to the Dead than Grisman (though I do enjoy Grisman as well) I think Phil is in a the same class as Garcia for sure... watch him on video, he's always in the same magical, free flowing room as Jerry... trickling like water... the Dead was and is a band that defies technical deconstruction... more in the heart and mind than the notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Grisman's reputation was already cemented long before Old & In The Way got together, let alone the Garcia/Grisman stuff. His association with Garcia predates GD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Some of you people make me laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blurry Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 quote: Originally posted by gentlemonkey: [QB] quote: Originally posted by hamilton: [qb] Hey tonyrage - Just out of curiosity, why have you chosen an image of the king of Thailand as your avatar? I was recently in Bangkok on the king's birthday, and it was quite a fucking celebration... For a second i thought it was william hung.. 'she bang she bang!!' tonight 8pm- American Idol reject special! And for a minute, I thought it was buddy who sang "How Bizzare" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 whatever you may think of Mickey, the quote is very suspect... "I think once in an interview Mickey Hart said something like Jerry hits so many bad notes but when he hits it right he is amazing." That's just too unreliable to comment so negatively on, and to even ask grisman a question like that isn't really fair. LEADING THE WITNESS YOUR HONOUR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRage Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 quote:Originally posted by paisley: ... the Dead was and is a band that defies technical deconstruction... more in the heart and mind than the notes Well put man...well put. As for the King of Thailand. He is my host at the moment and I love him. He might be the guy show sang How Bizarre too. I could not tell you for sure. The King is not technically my host, but it is His presence which allows me to be a guest in His land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zimmerman pt3 Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 tomorrow night I'm catching Grisman in Alaska!! I'll be sure to print this thread and leave it on stage for Grisman to peruse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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