~ GTB LOVE THREAD ~

[Kaidy Mae]

By not playing past 1:30 that bar EASILY lost out on a few grand in drink sales.

Amen sister! At $10.50 a pop for a double gin, that bar lost out on a fortune! Hell, I alone dropped more coins at that damn place than I'd care to mention.

If I want to hear the Bus, I'll throw on some old shows and have some delicious cocktails at home. If I hadn't partied with some kind folks afterwards, the night would've been a total bust. Next time I'll be thinking twice before I drive a few hours from the frickin' Muskokas IN A SNOW STORM to see these guys. I'm really glad that they came and played, but they left there with some real bitterness that was hard to ignore. ::

[kookycanooky]

ahhhhhhh. c'mon. What did I say about the rivoli?

I was in from halifax for reading week and i do get to see the bus like once a month, but i was still planning on making it out on friday.

unfortunatly my night got messed up, had to make dinner in thornhill...i only made it back to my place at 11:15. I'm only a 20 min ttc and walk away from the riv but i decided against it...and i was just informed that the fat cats were in hamilton saturday, and i decided to save my cash for that and go all out. I'm glad i did cause it was a great time as usual! No keyboardist, and it was the bassists birthday...tangled up in blue and Eyes of the world...what a night!

i'm glad i didn't try to make it to the bus...this is one of the first posts i've read with so much negative feedback about the night.

what time did it start to get really full and create a huge lineup??

[Jay Funk Dawg]

I think we are all having a tough time getting over the fact that the band has evolved and aren't a 'jam' band anymore... Thank god there is lots of recordings available of those grand funky times.

What hasn't changed is Grand Theft Bus' ability to write great songs with interesting melodies and hooks. I like their album very much.. but if you put it on right next to their old one, you will hear essentially two different bands.

As for playing until 1:30.. the band started at 11:45 and played a hour and 45 mins straight and then had a couple of minutes to chat with their friends... Having been a touring performer I know that it's hard to get time to spend some real one on one time the fans and friends that they don't get to see to very often and who are consistenly supporting the band... they opted to get out for the last few minutes of the night to hug their friends and family.. much to the dismay of the few late comers. Of course the band did have their Bus impounded by Toronto's Finest right after their soundcheck earlier that night, so they arrived back from getting the vehicle out of the Police lot, to the hotel and to dinner just in time for the show, all of which was a factor in their early end. (I stand corrected on this one - edit)

To address the sell out issue, we did consider advance tickets. The problem with advance tickets is that a third party is going to make a $2 or more surcharge per ticket, which didnt' seem appropriate for this show. We did not predict that the night would sell out. And with out my or the band's knowledge the venue decided to lock out the show from the front doors, not at the venue entrance. I did my best to clear out tables, sneak people in, and work on the bouncer to let the people in. I appologies to everyone who did not get in and was stuck out in the cold.

Thanks to all of your concerns and comments, I will certainly address them with the band when we plan their return to Toronto and for other shows that I put on in Toronto. Thank you all very much for supporting this scene in Toronto and I look forward to bringing you more great shows. Please feel free to email me if you have any other concerns or comments.

sincerely,

Jay Cleary

360 Degrees Artists

jay.cleary@sympatico.ca

[balki]

not that i feel a need to explain anything to you whiney bastards, i'd like to just say that we were in fact told by the bar to play no later than 1:30, and yes i agree that's a stupid rule especially considering that they had a full bar on hand. sounds like y'all would have prefered to leave early anyhow...

bob of the bus

lather lather, i miss dan rather

[Esau]

Well,I for one would have liked to have been there but could only afford one night out this weekend,I opted for a hometown show on saturday.

I'm not surprised that it was packed,especially since GTB was only playing one southern Ontario gig this time around.(Kingston's a bit outta the way from these parts for alot of folks.) I guess it just means that folks who consider themselves "loyal fans" should have extended their "loyality" to showing up early enough to get in. ::

Glad to see ya 'round these parts Bob,wish your first post could have been on a more positive note.See ya next time around.

Shin kick that Show-Whore when ya see him next for me,will ya?

[gtbtim]

I generally only hover here but this thread seems to require a little rebuttle of sorts from our band.

First of all,thanks to Jay Cleary for working so hard on promoting the show and all others who helped make it happen.

To those left out in the cold (literally) we are sorry for that. For our last several shows in TO the Rivoli has been the ideal room for us in every regard. We are sorry that it was a little to small for this night. It is obviously tough to gauge how big a crowd will be.Our sincerest apologies.

About the 1:30 stop. This had nothing to do with our van being towed or because we did not WANT to play more. It was because the bar asked us to be done (including encore-if need be!) by 1:30. We graciously obliged. Sorry if you felt ripped off but this was out of our hands.

About the music. We understand completely why a lot of folks hate what we are doing right now. For people who like improvised music ,which admittedly we used to do a lot of, you probably are wondering what the F happened, and rightfully so. We have changed a lot. What can I say to this really? We appreciate improvisation like a lot of people here but none of us listen to that kind of music that often right now nor to we feel it right now like we used to. Maybe we will again at some point who knows? All we are doing is playing music that we WANT to play. We are writing constantly and are playing songs that are expressing where we are as people and as a band right NOW. 2 years ago or more, we were into stretching things out as far as we could to see where we could go, be it a trainwreck or somewhere great.We had fun doing that then and still do from time to time depending on the situation. Friday night we wanted to squeeze as many tunes in as we could,we had one set!(by the way 'Off the International Radar' were fantastic!)

That being said,obviously there are some folks dissapointed with what we are doing right now.This is something that we are very aware of and are sorry for. However,as selfish as this may sound, we are not going to get up and play music that we are not feeling at the moment. It is just not going to happen. We would be lying to ourselves and to you by doing so. For us, some of our older music is the equivalent of looking back at your high school grad photo and cringing at the mullet (although most here seem to prefer our 'nape-drape' to our current concise cut.)Sorry for the lame analogy.

Whatever.

I don't know what else to say except that we are sorry for dissapointing some of you,and sorry for "ripping people off".

As a band we are going to continue to write our asses off,play hard and make music without compromise that challenges both us as a band and the people listening. If we didn't keep changing we'd be done. Maybe we'll come full circle someday,who knows?

Anyhow, sorry for being so longwinded. If you took the time to read this, thank you for you patience.

Many thanks again for supporting live music and artists in general wherever they may wander and stumble. We greatly appreciated it then and still do now.Peace.Hope to see you at a show sooner than later.

sincerely,

Tim Walker

Grand Theft Bus

[backbacon]

Thanks Tim. That was much better than being called whiney bastards.

[aberg83]

Well said, Tim. Having been following you guys since early 2002, I've seen snapshots of the evolution of your music, and I am definitely not among those who feel ripped off. I immensely enjoy the feeling of being taken away by the flowing beer and a long Street Sleeper, or my personal fav, Weight, but the new songs are just so damn catchy, as is the darker sound. I've been hooked on Mannequin, Leader, Friend, and recently got hooked on more mellow stuff like Photograph, and some new stuff I heard on Thursday night in Kingston... OMA, and 'I guess' i think were some of the new ones. Good job guys! Keep growing and keep playing across this great country, and I'll keep taping you guys to document the evolution assuming you a) keep letting me and archive.org doesn't run out of storage space.. hahaha.... cheers and let's here it for the BUS!

P.S. If you're looking to grab a listen to their latest Kingston show (Feb 17th, 05), follow this link:

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=22537

[paisley]

actually I'm pretty sure you mentioned that the bar asked you to shut it down at 1:30 to me at the end of the night at the bar Tim but in my Big City Toronto Drunk I forgot about that by the next morning... sorry about the mis-information... still didn't really feel like that short of a show to me, there was a lot of songs

enjoyed the spacey sounds of the opening band, though we arrived towards the end of them... very acclimatizing

[Alexis]

Hmmm whiney bastards, I love it. That's an awesome way to thank the people who've put you where you are today.

I'm not complaining about the music. I love the "new" material. I've been hearing some of those songs for almost a year now. Still love them. Glad they're available for purchase.

I'm also glad that someone representing the band has finally come out and given us fans a clear indication of where the music is going. Thanks Tim, and with all sincerity thanks for being a gentleman about it. I love hearing GTB play live, but if i'd known the show, in it's totality was going to be what it was I wouldn't have gone and asked my roommate to buy the CD for me and listened to it at home. Being called a whiney bastard, makes me feel like acting as one and just burning a copy off some schmuck who's already given you their $20. I've never ever in my life copied a studio or an offical live release, i don't think it's right. I'm a firm believer in supporting a band, but when I get a banana cream pie of whiney bastard in the face, well, it makes me want to say fu©k you, I'm keeping my money. Maybe now that you're not a jamband anymore, you can start dealing with the issues that other main stream acts deal with such as this whole burning of studios.

In the end I only want musicians to play what's in their hearts. There really is no point if you're not. If I don't agree with it, that's fine. I'm glad that so many people - most not a part of this scene of ours - like it. I just hope that as time progresses you take stock of what you're doing with your music, careers, and how you're playing into the pre-packaged, perfected 5 minute single. And you guys ARE good at it, I've never understood why street sleeper wasn't on the radio. But hey, if that's what you've got to do to make it big, that's fine. Maybe when you're there you can throw out a few jams now and again so that the masses can get a taste of what real music is all about.

I just can't get over it...whiney bastards....please. how about being a rock star? you don't always have to play by the rules. you've got a sold out show and a bunch of new fans in front of you. you've asked for beer i don't know how many times and not getting it...well F the bar. play your hearts out, play till they turn your power off, especially since you won't be playing any other SoOn dates. Oh - and if you're going to switch genres with no notice to anyone that listens to you, well, expect some feedback. If you're going to defy expectations you may want to redefine them first if you don't want to deal with the flac.

[gtbtim]

Thanks for your comments Alexis. Much appreciated. Just so you know,

We don't see what we are doing as "switching genres" because:

a)jamband is not a genre. Never has been.

b)we have and will always be gradually changing.We didn't draw a line and step over it.

Also, we are not doing this to 'get big' or anything like that. We will still write a 15 minute instrumental song if we feel like it. We are going to do whatever we feel like doing and that's all. This has always been the case. This is what we want to do right now. Our motivations are exactly the same as they always have been. Make music on our own terms period.

We fully expect criticism and appreciate it.We are grateful if people are talking about us at all! I believe Bob's comment was probably more motivated by the fact that people said we were jipping them. Sorry, but comments like those are the ones that actually sting, not the opinions about our music.

Thanks again.

ps- Thanks for taping Aberg. Sorry for the lack of 'weight'.

[mark tonin]

Wow, lots of emotion in this thread.

A few thoughts from somebody that was not at the show:

1. It is very hard to predict how many people will come out to a show. Booking too small of a room causes problems (like on Friday night's show) but booking too big of a room can also cause problems. It makes sense for a band to go back to a room that they have enjoyed playing at and that has worked in the past, unless there is a blatantly obvious reason why it won't work.

2. Advance ticket sales are tough to swing for most bar shows. Unless it's a big show with lots of hype or for a special event (e.g. Halloween or NYE) it just doesn't seem worth it to print tickets for the few people that will buy them.

3. I'd be upset as well if I had to stand in the cold waiting to get into a bar, especially if I was a lomgtime fan. Having said that, it's a tough problem for a bar owner or a band or a promoter to solve when it happens. Letting too many people into the bar causes other problems that piss people off (no room to move) and also can cause owners legal and safety problems. And you can't kick people out to make room for the more lomgtime fans who are standing in line.

4. Bands should play the music that they want to play ... the music that they feel. Hopefully what they play meshes well with what the audience wants to hear. If not, the band shouldn't alter what they are playing (unless they want to), and the audience should be able to express their disappointment ... preferably tactfully ... at least that's my approach (in case you didn't notice) :: ... remember, you are commenting on a person's artistic expression, which is very emotional and personal stuff in lots of cases.

5. Tim Walker's post was a treat to read ... thanks for taking the time to say that Tim ... you are a gentleman.

6. Once again I am reminded of just how hard important music is to all of us ... that's what I'm going to take from this thread.

Peace, Mark

[mark tonin]

I believe Bob's comment was probably more motivated by the fact that people said we were jipping them. Sorry, but comments like those are the ones that actually sting, not the opinions about our music."

Yes, this would be hard to swallow, especially given just how damn hard it is to make a living playing music!

Peace, Mark

[mark tonin]

a)jamband is not a genre. Never has been.

Open for debate, although I don't have the time or the energy for that one right now. It seems to be the view of a number of people these days though ... either it's not a genre or it's a dead genre. Personally, I think that at some point in the future, music historians will include a genre or subgenre called "jamband" when describing the history and evolution of music. Some books already do. (OK, I guess I had a bit of energy for the debate.)

Peace, Mark

[Gr8FuL]

Definetley no one should be complaining about feeling jipped, once you saw it was 10$ if ya thought that was a bad deal then you coulda not paid and went elsewhere, so no one should complain they feel jipped and of course thats gonna sting the band guys the most of any comments! They give their all whenever they play for sure!

But to bobs comment about whiney bastards, man thats a sh!tty thing to say, makes ya sound like an idiot too! Tims in the same band and he didnt retaliate with some bullsh!t little kid remark! You coulda put some more thought into your comment and probably got your point across better and not make people think ur a dickhead!

I dont mean to be a prick, but sh!t man, that low dude!

[paisley]

I kind of took Bob's comment as a tongue in cheek remark, like "sheesh guys" but I dunno... hard to gauge the inflection of language in type

I guess I'd say that it'd be good if band's could have some sort of list for limited seating venues... my ride drove all the way from Chatham, picked me up in Hamilton and it would've sucked pretty bad if they got stuck outside after a 3 hour drive there... maybe some sort of thing through a mailing list or the event booker or something, with a guarantee that you have to make the venue by a set time (say 11:30) or get crossed off the list (or make other arrangements)... not just the Bus, but all bands who have friends who undertake a mighty trek where there's no advance tickets available

[mark tonin]

I wasn't sure how to take Bob's comment, but I can definitely see how some people would take offence to it.

Paisley, you make a good point about fans travelling to shows. I'm thinking of the Ottawa show a few weeks ago and the people that travelled from southern Ontario to be there. It would have been a huge drag if they couldn't get in, and I would have felt terrible ...

Peace, Mark

[aberg83]

ps- Thanks for taping Aberg. Sorry for the lack of 'weight'.

It might take some time my friend, but I think I'll manage. By the way, the new track "get what you give" is stunning and the whole disc has a very complete professional feel to it. I wish you guys the very best with it! Cheers.

[U.FProductions]

Were's my 25min Streep Sleeper jam.

you fu©ker's better leave the noodle sh!t at home on Saturday night!

I'm sorry to see sooo many people bitches about The Bus, I guess you don't know what your missing.

I 've been fallowing the bus since they first step foot in Ontario, I even booked there first show in Hamilton way back, in fact it was the 3rd show in the first month of U F Productions.

This band isn't a sit still playing the same songs over and over again, they never had. they keep it fresh. I bet mostly cause they bored playing the same sh!t.

I see them every month or so and they always have a new song or two, and there songs are great, you guys are just a little far behind the time. You haven 't been exposed enough to the new songs. its like a whole set of bathroom brake songs for ya. I go to see The Bus to see the new songs not to hear play the same old stuff. it was such a relief when they started taking there older stuff out of the set lists. I was so happy to see a 2 set bus show with out them playing S.S.

it's progression, and that's not something to see alot of in the Canadian music scene let alone CanJAm scene. There's nothing worst then seeing the same show over and over again jam or no jam.

I'm sure it was a huge surprise to see all there new stuff. but instead of feeling ripped off ,why not listen to the music if its not your thing. be happy that The Bus have moved on to better things, its not there was five people in the crowd hating it. Its sounds like you scene got invaded, not you getting ripped off.

Peace From The East.

--Shane

[Tickler]

well put Tim and MArk, and anyone who remained civil and tasteful in their feedback about the band/show.

But I think Bob's comment was justified. If the fans are going to lash out and complain and have no regard for the bands feelings or even the facts, then why should you receive kindness in return. I am sure if something you made and loved was attacked and criticised because it was not what you were used to or wanted, then some of us here would react accordingly. People express themselves differently and that is just the way it is.

So because some chose to show up late, banking solely on the fact that past shows @ the Rivoli have not sold out and then you get there and have to wait, well I say tough sh!t.

Loyal fan or not, there were obviously many more people who chose to get their earlier and support the bar and opening act more than you. Deal with it and get their earlier next time, I am sure the band nor the bar consiously thought,"hey lets pack the place, screw over fans who have supported us for years and then stop early so we can piis everyone off". Give me a break. If you are so loyal then you should have some inkling about how much the band cares for its fans.

[SmoothedShredder]

Great show... wish they could all be like that... 7 nights a week... every venue. Please support live music, and leave the CD's for the time capsules. Or buy em from the band... and a T-shirt too... okay no T-shirt, but don't cry if it's $10, I've seen your clothes... they're nice... please, consider the band. Infact... pay $20, remember, and get your music online.

~W

Great Show.

[Del]

$20 to see the Bus? I'll pass... It's funny how the majority of people who really seem to be upset at the criticism are either from the east coast or are east coast transplants... As for the responses from the band, I think Tim really showed a positive way of dealing with the criticism, while Bob showed no class whatsoever... I don't care if he was upset about people slagging what happened, if you're willing to put yourself in the spotlight you have to take the good with the bad... I'm sure I'm not the only one who took offense to being called "whiney"... People have a right to not like which direction a band is taking. People also have a right to voice their opinions. Either way, hearing about what went down at The Rivoli hasn't exactly helped the Bus gain any favour... If they want to drop the jam label, that's more than fine. Many bands have found fans in our "scene" without having to jam. You can't get upset that people wish for the days when the Bus did jam though, because the Bus was one of the better jambands in our scene. Of course people who go to a show expecting jams, and getting five minute pop songs instead, are going to be upset. I'm not talking about the quality of the songs. Just the disappointment of falling in love with a band that used to do one thing, building a serious fan base doing so, then switching gears and expecting everyone to love the new direction that has been taken without question. Look at Wassabi Collective for a perfect example of this... I understand that the early end time was beyond the band's control, fair enough. You live and learn, and hopefully the Bus won't return to that venue. Just don't get upset that not everyone is happy with what's been happening with the band lately. We have a right to spend our hard earned money as we see fit, and while I will be checking out the band when they come to Ottawa, if it's on par with the experience had by many people at The Rivoli, it will most likely be my last Bus show ever...

[Tickler]

Oh come on Del, who do you think would stick up for Nero if they were being slagged over on jamhub? Probably mostly from people from the region in which they started and played the most. Its only a natural reaction to defend your friends is it not.

I believe the show @ the Rivoli was 10$ not 20$ as well.

[Kaidy Mae]

I kind of took Bob's comment as a tongue in cheek remark, like "sheesh guys" but I dunno... hard to gauge the inflection of language in type

That's true Paisley, it really is hard to tell. I think a few of us who were there would have unfortunately taken this as a very negative thing to write.

After the show I ran into Bob on my way to the washroom and was about to thank him for wailing on those drums (he really was givin'er). He blew me off like some backstage hussy who just wanted to hang out with the band. Believe me, I don't want to spend any time with someone who comes off as being that bitter.

Okay, so I'm official putting an end to my criticism of the Bus. I can understand how personal your music is to you guys and you should play whatever feels right. Really, what's the difference skanks if they play a certain way to keep pleasing us or play to "make it big"/please the masses? Either way they wouldn't be playing their music (which is the reason a lot of us started digging them in the first place). I'm sorry folks, but I don't ever want a band this talented to be puppets...for anyone!

ENJOY THE REST OF YOUR TOUR BUS BOYS!!!

Peace & love..............Kaidy Mae.

[U.FProductions]

you guys don't get it all.