MarcO Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 (in an effort to generate some sparks around here.....) One well written song is worth more than a thousand "jams". Discuss. :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 One well written song is worth more than a thousand "jams". Matter of opinion I would guess. Although I am not agreeing nor disagreeing with you,merely an observation.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Hooey. Tough one big guy. As tough as the knuckle meat I ate at Dim Sum yesterday. let me have a think about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 "jams" is too loosely defined. If you meant 'meandering squabbles about nothing' (the obvious focus for some people), then I agree with the above statement. If "jams" means pure moments of improv that tears the roof off the joint, then I dont have an answer. That one can go either way. Actually, I am just going to say " " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneMtn Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 I won't comment on "jams" in particular, but I will say that I've heard bands do some amazing versions of cover songs that I previously couldn't stand when done by the original artist. I think that has, at least, some relevance to this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberHippie Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Hmmm, for me I'm not sure that they are comparable. One well written song is a set piece of music that you can listen to over and over. But it's an indiviual piece or unit of music. A thousand jams represents raw art and creativity. That can often lead to that one well written song, but I think they are fairly different things. It might be kind of like comparing someones story over their journal. You may prefer to read stories as opposed to journals, but since they are very different things it's hard to say one is worth more than the other. How do we define worth? I mean sure from a monetary point of view a well written song is worth a lot more than the jams. People buy songs, they don't buy jams (for the most part). But from a societal worth point of view I don't think one is worth any more than the other, they are two necessary sides in the art of creating music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guigsy Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 i like this. me, i am someone who like a really great, tight, well crafted song, just as much as i love a mind bending jam. the tight well crafted song, i find, usually speaks to me in a different way, however. if it's great (as i deem it to be), it will incite some emotion, offer me words of inspiration, and often give me something to think about. the jams are obviously more unpredictable, so its going to be hit and miss. however, i suspect we're not talking about the sh!tty jams here... i mean, whats the point? :: so, i will say the jams, a good jam, can do similar things for me that a tight well crafted song can... incite emotion, give me something to think about... and instead of words of inspiration, they often allow for me to go inside myself and find that on my own. when i hear an amazing jam, it is very much an inward thing for me, its in my head, its in my body, im thinking and revealing new layers of thought with each progression. its a beautiful thng. i think a tight well crafted song is more capable of allowing for a great jam to ensue, than a great jam is capable of turning into a tight song. so in that regard, maybe the answer to the question is yes. although, i'll recognize that great jams may contain elements of the tight well crafted song just waiting to be written, it's also not the intention of the jam... its more of a serendipity. i think its important to say that there is a great deal of artistic merit and expression that can go into a well written song, that shouldnt be undermined by the spontaneous artistic elements of the jam. they're both art, not one more artistic than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 A written song is a finished product, a jam is a creation-in-progress. Both very different, both very enjoyable. Y'know that guy with the big afro who paints landscapes on PBS while trying to lull you to sleep with his relaxing voice? I like the way he jams. A song can induce reflection and analysis and nostalgia and a million other things, but a jam can induce mystery and excitement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave-O Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Nothing beats a good bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberHippie Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Can *you* take me to the bridge? I can't find that confounded bridge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted February 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Just trying to stir up some sort of a debate beyond day-to-day pleasantries and observations. I don't even know if I agree with the thesis statement, although I confess I lean towards agreement. I've been thinking a lot about this lately. Listening to Lucinda Williams' "Happy Woman Blues" CD last night almost made me cry, each song was so beautiful, so tasteful, so eternal, such satisfaction. And as I listen to WMVY radio from Martha's Vineyard, I am constantly reminded of the bounty of unbelievable songs to enjoy: Warren Zevon, Ani DiFranco, James Taylor, Guster, The Thrills, Madeline Peyroux, all day long, the list goes on and on. Even seeing McCartney run through a few songs at the Super Bowl halftime show last night got me thinking about the power of a good song. I just have so much respect for the art of songwriting. Of picking and choosing privately, making decisions, living as an artist in order to be an observer and sensitive person, absorbing abstract thoughts and feelings and aiming for a concise, universal expression of them. In the time it might take any number of bands to start and complete one of their big "jam" numbers, I heard Lucinda Williams deliver a dozen or so gems. It made me think about the utility of music. It made me think about internalization of expression, subjectivity. It made me think, but not think. You know? On the other hand, I can also appreciate grooving along for twenty minutes until I have forgotten what song it was that started it all off. Trouble is, I internalize the experience of absorbing the event; it doesn't fill a hole in my heart and soul like an effective 3 minute song can, when well written. When I walk down the street, alone with my subconscious and thoughts, I hear Brad Barr singing 'Dear Melinda" or "If One Of Us Should Fall". The jams connecting them are lost to the wind, although I really enjoy them. Dig? Or something like that. I know I'm not expressing myself very clearly. Just wanted to get some discussion going on; with all respect to the threads currently in progress, not much is red hot these days and i'm a bit bored. fu©k I love beer. I miss kung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-towns Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 music just tickles everyones brain in a different way, I like the music that gives me goosebumps when i hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRage Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 For me, it depends on the listening environment to a great degree. I have to say that when I see bands live, I would much rather here a great jam (or well crafted section of music not on an album). At home, I am more likely to listen to a song, but some of my favourite jams from certain live shows have become almost like a song for me in that I have heard them so often I can sing along with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggrtrhhrtgg Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 this is a great question, although, I don't think I can separate either form of art. In a way, I believe they are both on the same playing field... Personally, I love the written word, I studied English Literature at University, and song-writing is a form of literature... However, if you were to ask me what I think I learned from my undergrad, I would define it as "having a degree in reading between the lines." In other words, I would define art as the ability to express emotion, thought/idea without directly saying them... What I loved the most about studying literature was those days after reading a story/poem/essay/song and discussing and interpreting what angles the author may or may not have intended--or finding beautifully written words that describe some aspect of life that is extremely profound.. For example, S.L.A.T.'s "Ulysses" gives an account of what some of the true feeling of an adventurer are... Ulysses fights and battles his way back to his home because of his love for his wife and country, and S.L.A.T. describes a very different character that longs to go back out on the sea, to fight more battles, or in short, his true love lies in adventure... (anyhow, I am getting off track) Well, those days, after discussing ideas and interpretations of great, profound literature would put me in a world of extremely deep thought, God I love that... When I am at a show, and I am dancing to a killer jam, I have feel those same sort of emotions, and I experience the somewhat similar thoughts... I think it is just another avenue of expression, I think all Art are avenues of expression... anyhow, that's my two cents. ::good question and MarcO, and by the way, I still love the Dead more than the Beatles!!! hahaha.. :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazlo Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 A heady jam or a well written song? My vote leans toward whatever muffles the sound of a drowning kitten the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Since the music industry's biggest resource is the song. that's what makes hits and gets people to listen and recognize the music and the arrangement. one well crafted song can be worth 50 million jams. when we're talking about defined worth, the only real way to precisely define the term is through money. The jamband scene makes its money on ticket sales, merch, and the vendors in the lot. none of that is done directly through the jams...people remember songs but jams are in the moment. Even recorded jams rarely get kept vividly in memory unless recorded and relistened. if this is a 'which has more merit' debate, it's an immature debate, as music's beauty lies in its intangibility and the personal tastes of each individual listener. if you're going to have a pissing contest about what's better then you're probably in the wrong place...keep in mind...you need direction for jams to be worth anything. if it's JUST jams then there's no real push behind the night other than an emotional push. in that kind of setting, the participants are the band AND the crowd. if a night of pure jams lack an inherent push or direction and don't just meander then those jams are worth more than any song in that moment. that night would be filled with riches. but keep in mind there's a difference between a rich man and a wealthy man. wealth is much bigger and lasts longer. songs tend to represent more wealth...songs generate money, help support the music industry, and create memories rather than just some poignant moments - even if those moments are worth more than any song. any memories that surround jams are made with the entire package...the music, the vibe, and the people around you. to me the scene is the wealth we've come to appreciate, the jams are just the icing on the cake when it gets right down to it. I go for the music, I go back for the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Well I thought about it some more and as fenced as I am I think the power of one song is increasingly the direction I'm going. I really struggle to classify a good jam as anything more than a component of a good song....I like a certain unique progression to expand explore contract but not at the expense of the song. Too many of Phish's songs are like that for me. The beginning and the end are just useless filler for the epic jam.....and if the jam isn't epic every time than the song is sh!t. It's easier to discern the good from the great too, by looking at what role a jam sequence or a esgue plays in the structure of the song...bands like Medeski Martin and Wood are one of the few instrumental groups that I think understands the importance of composition even in an improvisational venue. Bands like String Cheese haven't figured this out, then again I'm not their target audience so what does it matter. My favorite concert of the past year was Wilco, I think that say more than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Medeski Martin and Wood are one of the few instrumental groups that I think understands the importance of composition even in an improvisational venue. My favorite concert of the past year was Wilco, I think that say more than anything. I think I love you, Toddles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 It's Adam, but I'm sure the peruvian thanks you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Oh yeah, right. I think I love you, ahess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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