SLOWCOASTER!!! wow. mind. blown.

[Booche]

Exactly DaveyBoy because for those actually keeping score, Dipshit is 100 percent wrong with another hypothesis unless he meant the following to be in purple.

The above post is what is being marked as disrespectful by Booche for those of you keeping score.

[edger]

Yeah Deeps, sorry but I don't think it was that one post that you quoted above that was found to be offensive.

[Esau.]

The new listener needs to stop being a drug addict, they need to start listening and stop pretending they love everything. The more educated listener needs to understand when a player is trying to bridge the gap between virtuosity and accessibility and that this bridge is immensely harder to build than the one that goes from the player to heavens and directly over 90% of the listeners heads (unless that listener is flying on the 7th hour of their trip and will not remeber the show, save for some grey ephemeral brah vibe).

Personally, I don't feel the need to analyze or even understand completely what any musician is doing on stage aside from creating art I enjoy and they enjoy creating. How, I enjoy that art is entirely up to me also.

I understand the difference between an educated or trained musician opposed to an uneducated one like myself, who, besides a handful of chords I can half ass strum but have a shitload of fun doing regardless, really knows nothing about the theory behind it. That makes me an uneducated musician* (*term used loosely)

I'm curious though to what defines an educated listener?

For example, I certianly don't love everything I hear or see live thats for sure, not even by some of my favourite bands. But if I choose to focus on the things I like about their music instead of the things I don't, techinical or theoretical side of it all, does that make me an unedcuated listener?

[Davey Boy 2.0]

not if you can play the simple stuff with passion, Bam

[Deeps]

What would one need to do to meet the criteria of good?

I think some of you are tired of jam music in general, and the only people that pass the test are those whom you've grown to love because you were previously much more trashed at bars and used to let how they made you feel dictate their credibility.

You likely would have liked these young bands who you label as failing today when you were younger, but your needs have changed.

I just simply fail to see the superiority of the Fat Cats, BnB's or Nero's catalogue with that of Slowcoaster, JSB, or GTB.

All provide fairly cohesive tunes with memorable movements and lyrical brilliance right along side lyrical fallability don't they?

Please elaborate.

Deeps

What I wanted this to mean.

Somepeople who were previously in the "good times" first headspace have moved from there to the much more crytical side. Their previous likes have pervaded, but their willingness to accept that which is different is not what is used to be do to the lack of suggestability-through-imbibing.

I did not mean to say that the bands in question were in any degree unlikeable, sans drugs, which the above quote certainly does read as. This was a gaff and not an intentional elephant sized diss.

AS for the fans of these bands, "some people" can be read to mean crabby people on this board who tell me that the stuff they hear out of new bands is mediocre too consistently to really need to be given any creedence.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Guest

[boiler]

The fact that this conversation has devolved into a pissing match is very dissapointing. There's no need for that bullshit. Unless people want to get out rulers and drop trouser, than I'm game.

[MarcO]

"some people" can be read to mean crabby people on this board who tell me that the stuff they hear out of new bands is mediocre too consistently to really need to be given any creedence.

cuntybollocks.

who is telling YOU anything? It's a public forum, not "letters to Deeps".

If someone doesn't like something they can fucking say so and they don't need to explain themselves to you.

Keep making assumptions.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Guest
changed tense

[Esau.]

Deeps, first, I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything, just understand where your coming from here.

You say people need to "stop pretending they love everything", yet when that did happen, you claim those people are unwilling to accept the new.

I don't get it.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Guest

[Deeps]

Public message board yes, this is their danger and I am sorry I brought people's ability to choose their own opinions into question.

I was hypothesizing and being defensive.

Sorry I took any of this personally.

[Deeps]

Deeps, first, I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything, just understand where your coming from here.

You say people need to "stop pretending they love everything", yet when that did happen, you claim those people are unwilling to accept the new.

I don't get it.

I guess I was saying they aren't hearing the new, but that's again just my opinion.

[guigsy]

i still just dont get whats so "new" or "progressive" about a lot of these bands that apparently arent getting their due, seemingly because of their newness and progressiveness... a bit of a paradox for me.

the last "new" sound i heard out of a canadian "jamband" was nero. no one that i heard before sounded like them, and i havent found anyone since.

the only canadian "jambands" doing anything "progressive" to my ears these days are GTB and JSB. "progressive", in this sense, means to me that they're taking "jam" music and trying to twist it around into their own little sound by using their own strengths and putting their own unique stamp on it. the bus has been doing this for years now and consistently getting shit on, because they dont sound like your typical "jamband"... in fact, they sound like a new and progressive breed of jamband, to my ears. weird, eh? the "old dogs", by this threads standards, are still the "newest" and most "progressive" sounding to my ears.

you dont have to be in your 30's to be a cynical dick, and dickish cynisism isnt born out of hating everything "new" and "progressive"... give me something thats actually fresh, and then lets have this debate.

[bradm]

the bus has been doing this for years now and consistently getting shit on, because they dont sound like your typical "jamband"...

I think it's more that recent GTB music (from the last two years, say) has been criticised because of its departure from the music they were making before that ("trancy" GTB vs. "indie-rock" GTB).

Aloha,

Brad

[MarcO]

BNB got their lumps a few years back over all sorts of things..... things ebb and flow.

In the end the ultimate revenge against criticism is perseverance.

[Gr8FuL]

Slowcoaster rock!! Never been disappointed at a sloco show. If its not your thing, then its not your thing. Its doesnt take away they are awsome artists on the rise!! Atleast they are what they are and arent trying to be somethign they are not...Ie-GRAND THEFT BUS...but thats another rant.

[AD]

I demand boiler rat change his / her signature!

[AD]

SAtleast they are what they are and arent trying to be somethign they are not...Ie-GRAND THEFT BUS...

philosophers would have a field day..

how can grand theft bus be something they're not?

[guigsy]

maybe if you quoted the rest of my point, you would have gotten what i was saying.

in fact, they sound like a new and progressive breed of jamband, to my ears. weird, eh? the "old dogs", by this threads standards, are still the "newest" and most "progressive" sounding to my ears.

my point is that indie-rock GTB is still trancy-jammy GTB, just with a different flavour, and different elements added... i still hear the old bus in the new bus - and in my opinion, they do a great job of blending their styles.

[boiler]

Good comments Guigsy. I think however there area lots of other bands out there that stretch the limits, but not necissarily bands confined to who would be talked about on this board. And even some more that do. (e.g. Blue Quarter).

Slowcaoaster, like em, hate em, love em, have a sound (I think) that is pretty unique. Wheather or not they are pushing the boundaries or not is a different story. I go back to what I've been trying to get across throuout this thread. They are a rock band, and not every rock band has to push boundaries, nor does pushing boundaries have anything at all to do with keeping a (dare I say but for lack of a better term) scence alive.

Caution Jam is a very good example of this. A band that just keeps pushing out some of the best Rock songs known to man, year after year, just to keep people moving and energized.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Guest

[Davey Boy 2.0]

my point is that indie-rock GTB is still trancy-jammy GTB, just with a different flavour, and different elements added... i still hear the old bus in the new bus - and in my opinion, they do a great job of blending their styles.

i still love adding the "...sexily" part to your posts when i read them, they come off really well sometimes

[bradm]

my point is that indie-rock GTB is still trancy-jammy GTB, just with a different flavour, and different elements added... i still hear the old bus in the new bus - and in my opinion, they do a great job of blending their styles.

If this was a reply to what I wrote/quoted, know that I agree with you; I like GTB's music now more than ever. It just seemed to me that I've never heard GTB compared to other "typical" jambands, just criticized for the change(s) they've made in their sound over the last few years.

Aloha,

Brad

[guigsy]

right - we, agree - but we're talking from different angles...

you say they were criticised, not compared.

and im saying, their critisisms were comparisons to "typical jambands", because people wanted a sound (from them) that they already heard, or were getting somewhere else - you need a comparison to know that - instead of accepting that gtb was actually trying to be "new" and "progressive" within the most pigeonholing of "genre's".

[shainhouse]

I had no idea this thread even existed. It's titled in a very deceiving manner when compared with what it has become. I've been pondering if saying anything would help, shed some light or cool some fires. Luke will prolly lambaste me anyways, so here goes.

This thread is filled with comparisons. Comparisons are tricky in the music business I have learned. I dislike them, but have to use them to relate music I'm reviewing to other music, so the theory resonates with the reader, and subsequently my ideas towards the music. Yet, I just started a new job which essentially gives me free reign to scour Europe for new bands, acts, music, art that Westerners, particularly British folks haven't heard of. In this job, comparisons are rife, but I go to great lengths to avoid them.

What I discover every single day is astounding. Genre labeling aside because genres are meaningless, the amount of unique and interesting things, as well as average and bad things is enormous. To me, growth as a musician and listener comes with a broader spectrum of music, and both old and new bring different lessons and inspiration to it. I like Slowcoaster, but I will never deny the Fat Cats influence on my past; I will listen to Mum, an Icelandic pop band and then throw on some Sierra Leone Refugee Allstars, or Dallas Green (Australian Punk). To me, new and old are categories, only constructions in which we attribute useless meaning. Music is music; the new song Roger Waters posted today is great, same with Cloud Cult, a brilliant pop band from Minnesota.

Saying that, being in an independent band is tough, because people are quite protective and close-minded towards musical choice. This is a massive generalization, and I note that for fear of Luke's wrath, but turning people onto what I see as unique music - which others may not - is tough business. I think what we're doing with Kae Sun and WTTS is pretty fucking cool, but that is just me. I still think that BNB's debut is pretty fucking cool too; just different 'cool.'

If I had a point in all this, great. I think we need to be pragmatic in our musical tastes, but utilitarian at the same time. Open to everything, but not tuned in to everything. I recommend opening an account with Last.fm. You never know what you'll find. I found Pufferfish today, an alt.country band from Seattle whose album I just bought.

much love.

[Gr8FuL]

SAtleast they are what they are and arent trying to be somethign they are not...Ie-GRAND THEFT BUS...

philosophers would have a field day..

how can grand theft bus be something they're not?

well i guess they're tryign to be a good band... and they're not.... NO just they got they're start as something totally different, the crowds were different (larger) and the times were better. Then they went all"indie hipster" or whatever... its not the same, in fact i loved the bus, loved em before they were the bus when they were wooderson, saw more shows than anyone i know....and now i'de rather eat my own fingers than endure a single bus set. Just my opinion.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

Kae Sun needs more train songs

[paisley]

as Woody Allen said:

"I would never belong to any club that would have me as a member."

the bands I like I believe write and play cause they love to do that and the court of popular opinion generally seems way down there on their list of priorities... I don't care if they know 3 chords or 1,000 are 14 years old or 40 or anything else besides the feelings I get when I listen to their art... same as most things, I like it when I feel someone actually "means it"

now I'm hungry... rock on