Thorgnor Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 I dare Kung to give me a definition of "authenticity" that isn't based strictly on someone's opinion. By the way, Schwa can definitely appreciate good humor, trust me. He laughs at my jokes and in my estimation I'm really funny. What's irony? Ween Rules!!!!!!!!1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Kung, I'm sorry we don't share the same opinion of these bands (Ween, TMBG, Flaming Lips, etc.). I don't see how this makes me a "cock knock" as you call it... I used to listen to TMBG in my early formative years. I thought it was the ultimate back then, but listening to it now I see I've personally moved beyond that particular sound. Not that it makes me better or worse than anyone else, I just happen to be into something different now. I remember the Flaming Lips' "She Don't Use Jelly" video from my early high school years. I loved it, but in the way I loved "Popular" by Nada Surf. It was catchy, but had a short shelf life with me. After watching their SARS-stock performance and hearing their Bonnaroo set, I'm convinced they are one of the most boring bands I've ever heard. If what happened at the SARS show was great entertainment to you, I suggest you get out more. Now, as for Ween, I think Trey's quote speaks for itself: "Zappa asked if humor belonged in music. Yeah, it does. But a better question for Zappa might have been, Is humor the ONLY thing that belongs in music? You have to be careful about that too." Listen to the song titles: HIV Song, Baby Bitch, Mister Richard Smoker, Spinal Meningitis Got Me Down, Waving My Dick in the Wind; I must be a fool not to see how these are classics. I've heard some Ween, I didn't like it. To quote you Kung: "Who are you people? Really who are you? What kind of a cock knock doesn't get that Ween is one of the ultimate live ensembles. It is not even open for debate." What if I was to say the same about those of you who like Ween? To say they were one of the worst ensembles on the planet and that I looked down on those who didn't feel like I did? What makes your opinion so much more valid than say mine or Tigger's or Schwa's? And don't bother retyping that stuff about who you've wrote for, that doesn't make your opinion of music any better than mine. I'm not coming down on your opinion, just disagreeing with it. No need for calling each other idiots, morons, etc. I've partied with you a couple of times (May CTMF and nero B-Sides 06-25-03), and I know you're a good guy. I even know that you have a good taste in music, because I seem to run into you at nero shows. Just calm down, dude! Why not be constuctive, instead of simply name calling? I know you're better than that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Argueing about ween is like baiting hippies with phish comments...way to easy. You get the same responses... "anyone who doesn't like ween/phish is a [insert insult]"...blah blah blah..........wretch. "weenies" Looks like a new band to bait with........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 And to trash a masterpiece like Richard Smoker...well I never! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PalacePrincess Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 actually, funny you should mention that... littlemiss pink & i are making up a tap dance to mr. richard smoker right now! it's coming along beautifully. especially at the bits where we aren't laughing so hysterically we can't even breathe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 I don't know how anyone can take such great offence to other people putting Ween on such a pedestal. You either like them, or you don't. The way I'm reading these posts, it seems that in the spirit of all things Ween, if you like them your a cock-knock, of you don't your just a cock-knock. Ween seems to inspire cock words much like Kevin Smith and Jason Mews. It's no secret that I'm not a lyrically influenced person to anyone that knows me, so I haven't appreciated Ween's lyrics much yet as I'm still taking in the music as I hear it. I love what I hear. There's so much diversity that I my brain has alot to take in before I could even notice there are lyrics involved. The only lyrics I know - and I played it on my acoustic to warm up for Ween at AMMF - is Piss Up a Rope. ! They were an incredible act to enjoy at the AMMF. I can't wait to see them again, and I sure would like to have some Ween in the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchoulia Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 quote: Originally posted by bouche: The way I'm reading these posts, it seems that in the spirit of all things Ween, if you like them your a cock-knock, of you don't your just a cock-knock. First of all, can I just say, kudos on the repeated use of the phrase "cock-knock"...it warms the cockknockles of my heart. Second, quote: Listen to the song titles: HIV Song, Baby Bitch, Mister Richard Smoker, Spinal Meningitis Got Me Down, Waving My Dick in the Wind; I must be a fool not to see how these are classics. I've heard some Ween, I didn't like it. To be fair, just cuz the song titles are a little "tongue in cheek", doesn't mean they aren't classics to some people! I mean, Piss Up A Rope is practically my mantra!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 I think Thorgnor is right to reduce the issue to a matter of authenticity. Of course I don't know that he actually knows what that word means or what the implications of it are but that's alright. "Authentic Existence" is a technical expression within existential philosophy and psychology. An 'Authentic' person is one who has a clear sense of his or her purpose in life. Both Camus and Sartre embrace the notion of living authentically in the present in their earlier works but gravitate away from that to a notion of solidarity- among their tribe as it were. It's a complex line of reasoning but this quote captures some of the sentiment: quote: The idea of authenticity is very important to Sartre, as seen in his discussion of bad faith in Being and Nothingness. Sartre sees behavior as a sequence of conscious value judgments, and he thinks that to attribute actions to any kind of determinism is bad faith. It is bad faith to say, “I ran away because I am a coward.” Sartre would claim that the coward values the outcome obtained by running away more than any other possible outcome. There is no accounting for antecedent causal factors except for those present in the situation itself. Like the early thinking of Camus, this is all oriented toward the individual. Sartre deals with the choices of the individual in terms of existence and authenticity. {Authenticity then doesn't have anything to do with 'someone's opinion'. It has to do with living in accordance with an internal guide, completely in the present without resorting to some external force or power or notion of hope for a future. There is no future.} Anyways funkee homosapien this burn's for you so let's take it in order. How you could say that the Flaming Lips performance at the SARS concert was one of the most boring you've ever heard is beyond me. Just so we're clear every artist on the bill was in awe of the Flaming Lips and their theatricality/musicianship (based on various accounts). Likewise all of the coverage I read in the Globe and National Post lauded the praises of the Lips. Perhaps because they were the only artist that really engaged the crowd and the idea of why these people were gathered. Why were they on the bill? Likely because all of the House of Blues promoters and individuals involved loved the idea of having their favourite band on the bill. So while you can't debate taste you can take some stock of the fact that highly accomplished artists, journalists and promoters likely have 'good' taste gleaned from the perspective they have crafting, producing and presenting their own art. You're right that Trey's quote speaks for itself. It's a lame not very insightful quote from a not that insightful guitar god. Trey is not and will never be the mental heavyweight, composer, life force that Frank Zappa was- ever. Quoting Trey on Zappa again shows how low your reference levels are. He simply is not an important thinker and doesn't have that much to say beyond general trippy stream of consciousness shit. As for the song titles I think that's your most idiotic point. Why don't we compare Mike's Song, Vultures, Gotta Jiboo, Bug, Jennifer Dances, Heavy Things, Limb by Limb. Phish sings songs by and about nothing. I've had a few touching moments listening to a particular lyric of Phish' but more often than not it's that swelling in your chest that tells you that 'you can feel good' (another genius lyric). I think you're on pretty shaky ground here and don't necessarily realize that there is a reason that Phish is so disrespected in the music community. I'm glad they exist, I'm glad there's a place for them, I love them even, but I don't think they are credible or authentic or whatever you want to call it. Plus the more fucked up they get the worse the music gets which is obviously the opposite case with Ween. The name calling what have you is inconsequential. Ween is a response to the gentrified and politically correct environment that has gotten out of hand- as Rollins puts it these bands have spent their whole lives encased in condoms with their brand of 'safe sex and safe sexism'. Honing in on some 'seemingly' crude title shows how little you have scratched the surface. HIV or Spinal Meningitis is not just a stupid lark it is a thoughtful meditation on a nameless death that could befall any of us as Gener described well in the interview (which you should read): "That song didn't come out of any kind of making fun of. That song came out of fear of death, fear of needles in the spine, and that's not cool at all. That's really bad news. There is a lot of psychological terror going on in Ween, and there always has been. Mickey is totally evil. He's fucking Satan. He's not wearing a hemp bead around his fucking neck. I think people who are really into Ween understand that." Anyways Del-Head you must not have read the linked article/interview because I think it is written directly to doubters and nay sayers like yourself. People who haven't loved and hated nearly enough, who haven't soared with the eagles and wallowed with the pigs, people who don't realize that if you mix BLACK and WHITE you get BROWN. Many people, it seems, don't have the breadth of mind to realize that humor doesn't necessarily mean a lack of gravity. "Yeah, we have humor in our music, but it can get as serious as a heart attack, too. Our music is just about everything that we experience in life, and a lot of it is funny, and a lot of it -- like "Birthday Boy" for example (from God Ween Satan) -- isn't funny. It sucked. I was in hell when I wrote that song, you know what I mean?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaPink Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 LittlemissPink & Palace plant a big one on Gener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PalacePrincess Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 mmmmm... tastes like candy.... canday.... canday.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooly Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 did you see the dolphin outfit on stage during the lips set? that was justin timberlake in that outfit. that guy is almost as much of a slut as warren, gettin on stage with lots of bands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Tooly: did you see the dolphin outfit on stage during the lips set? that was justin timberlake in that outfit. Justin Timberlake in a dolphin outfit? Bring on the tuna fisherman, armed with bloody gaffes and flash-freezers...now, that would have been theatre... (I can almost imagine a Terry Gilliam animation kicking in mid-way through a song, with fisherman netting Timberlake-as-dolphin, hauling him on board, freezing him, taking him to the fish market at Tokyo, auctioning him off, and having him end up as sushi somewhere...) (IIRC, there were quite a few other stage performers [Timberlake, Kethleen Edwards, etc.] who appeared in costume on stage, not that it changes anything.) Aloha, Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaPink Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 it's ok if you don't like Ween... we forgive you for what you don't know. more dancing space for us at the show... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted August 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Well, colour me brown. I just picked up "quebec", am half way through it, and I'm already shaking my head in disbelief at how good it is. Just fucked, completely fucked. Weird, you know, I don't find Ween to be a comedy act at all, like Tenacious D, who wear thin real quick. The humour at the core of their music is just a major flavour in the overall stew. Some of this stuff is pretty dark and evil. Hey, now it's "Hey there Fancypants"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Forget comic-rock. Ween are full-fledged members of the Subversive Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted August 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 On a second listen now. Demented. Completely demented. It truly takes a special talent to produce this kind of insanity. A great CD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Ah folks, I'm a little disappointed no one bit on my Sanctuary comment. Apparently I was right all along, being subtle doesn't get you noticed. That's it, I'm going back to shainhouse's thread where everybody is ragging on everybody else, now that shit is way fun! - M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 quote: How you could say that the Flaming Lips performance at the SARS concert was one of the most boring you've ever heard is beyond me. I wasn't there, but hearing the acts over the radio live, then watching a little on tv, i'd say, tFL's was the most boring band there. Yes, more so than JT. But oh well, i'm just a cock-knocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted August 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 quote: Originally posted by Mr. Musicface: Ah folks, I'm a little disappointed no one bit on my Sanctuary comment. My dirty little secret is that I didn't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 It seems as if most people have seen the light and the dark. The fact that this comes back to an issue of taste and the impossibility of debating it is frustrating. I think I made some pretty sound points and Mr. Del couldn't come back with much. The point is that I find it extremely relevant when a well respected and admired i.e. credible artist respects another artist. I read the unedited transcript of Jeff Waful's (Relix) with Neil and he had some lovely things to say about Phish. I don't know why it matters to me but it does. It's like the way Canadians don't really respect an actor/comedian/musician until Americans pick up on it. For some reason we need validation or we need for someone else to legitimize our pastime as something other than masturbation. That said I don't know how someone can stomach something like the Bangor or Bozeman Tweezer and then find Ween hard on the head. My sense is whether it's Ween, Flaming Lips or indy hip hop that some people shut themselves down to it from the get go. It's like this internal kill switch that says that this is 'too much', 'too weird', 'too quirky'- whatever it is 'I don't get it'. So then a value judgment is made that this is in fact bad thereby confirming my impression. BradM I respect your encyclopedic music knowledge, your deep affection for science fiction although somewhat suspicious, but I think you're dead wrong here. The Lips were on the bill because they earned it (through the allegiance of the promoters) and lived up to it. Likewise with moe.down they earned that right because of the band's allegiance. Wayne's voice was a bit rough admittedly but they pulled it off. The instrumentation I felt was splendid, the drum sound and the heaviness they get from the low end is so distinctive. All through the Yoshimi material there is this elegant use of the 'drum and bass' idiom which sets them apart for so fully meshing it with folkiness (see for instance 'Spoonful Weighs A Ton'). But to bring it home to Ween, Phish, Lips etc. and the question of authenticity. I think all these bands are truly authentic in the existential sense of the word. It comes down to what Sartre called Good Faith and moreover Bad Faith. The famous story being that a sailor wrote Sartre asking him whether he should leave the service to go home and attend to his mother who was ill. Sartre's response was that the question itself was in 'Bad Faith', the sailor was looking to something outside himself to guide his moral decision about his obligations. In this sense Phish, Ween the Lips are all acting clearly in good faith. As are their fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted August 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 "I read the unedited transcript of Jeff Waful's (Relix) with Neil" Kung - I'd love to read that, if you have it handy, please. northerntube@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon. Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 ween is great, jambands are great - if you like em'....more importantly - you can wash my balls with a warm wet rag.... ween's country cd is one of the alltime greats!! now piss off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon. Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 tell me, how can you beat:Biddley bah boo, biddley bah boo, biddley bah boo bow! Mister richard smoker, you’re a poopy poker Chardonnay & cocaine in the spa Pantyhose and aqua-net Little boys on crystal meth Tonight we’ll tango in the street You eat dark meat Mister richard smoker, you’re a chicken choker Tonight you’re gonna let it all hang out Pantyhose and aqua-net Smoking menthol cigarettes Tonight we’ll tango in the street You eat dark meat Biddley bah boo, biddley bah boo, biddley bah boo bow! Yeah! You eat dark meat Biddley bah boo, biddley bah boo, biddley bah boo bow! Mister richard smoker, you’re an ono yoker Cognac and black coffee with the boys Dancin’ in your buster browns Whirlin’ to the techno sounds Your hands are wet, your hair is slick You smoke big dick Mister richard smoker, you’re a velvet coker Bruce and geoff will pick you up at ten Friday night, dancin’ in the city Friday night, gotta look pretty Tonight we’ll tango in the street Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 quote: Originally posted by MarcO: My dirty little secret is that I didn't get it. That's okay MarcO, I doubt anyone else did either but at least someone had the guts to admit it. To wit: the Blues Traveler album Truth Be Told also came out on Sanctuary this month. Now admittedly I'm a big Blues Traveler fan, but if this album sucked I'd be the first to say so. However, I really think this is their best album in at least 10 years, if not ever. Popper's voice and lyrics have never been better, and his harmonica playing is still great but much more subtle then the 64th note triplets that used to grace every track. The production and arrangements are brilliant, and there's not a single track that I skip over when listening to it. No poppy "Run-around" stuff, just solid songs, some deep and touching, some fun and funky. Highly, highly recommended. - M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 Just to get back to you for a second Kung, the opinions of Sartre and Camus, however learned (that's with the emphasis on the Ed) they may be, are still the opinions of two depressed French dudes who drank too much coffee. Regardless of who argrees with Existentialist deductions "Authenticity" with a capital A is still based on the perceptions of individual human beings who are entitled to be completely without intellectual redemption or merit should they choose to be. Yo Thorgnor, why you bringin'up old shit?!?! I'm not sayin'this to be a dick but I'm sure that because my opinion is not the opinion of Kung it must therefore, by perfectly logical reasoning (in my opinion), not be his opinion of what an opinion should be?!?!?!?!?!? All's I'm sayin'is that Ween is a band that I enjoy laughing at/with because of my shitty opinion in music. Thank God that one person's opinion doesn't change the opinions of others or else we would be social animals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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