Velvet Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 It's shameful that legislation deflects responsibility. Why can't anyone just admit that they are responsible for their own actions?I just heard on CBC that of the 16 people charged, only three of them were actually at the resort on the evening in question. Imagine getting the call - "Y'know that night you were sitting home watching tv? Well, you're being charged with contributing to the death of three people that night, you soulless bastard." Here's a question - shouldn't the RCMP be charged as well for not having a RIDE program set up that night? How about the car companies for not having breathalizers built into their cars? Ontario police charge club, employees in Muskoka traffic deathsLast Updated: Monday, January 12, 2009 | 3:04 PM ET Comments317Recommend139CBC News Ontario Provincial Police have taken the highly unusual step of laying charges against a Muskoka resort and 16 of its employees in connection with three traffic fatalities.Last summer Cory Mintz, 20, Tyler Mulcahy, 20, and Kourosh Totonchian, 19, died after the car they were riding in burst through a guardrail and struck a tree before ending up on its side in the Joseph River.The OPP said at the time that its investigators had determined that alcohol and speed were "definite factors" in the crash that killed the three young men from Toronto.An autopsy confirmed that all three drowned.On Monday, police in Bracebridge announced they were charging 16 employees, along with the directors of the Lake Joseph Club with offences under the Liquor Licence Act in connection with the deaths.The 34 charges include allowing drunkenness on the premises of the club as well as serving liquor to an apparently intoxicated person.The three victims had been visiting the cottage of Mintz's mother and decided to have a late lunch at the restaurant in nearby Port Sandfield.While returning to the cottage the car hit a guardrail on the Joseph River bridge, crashed through trees and plunged into the water. "The vehicle had hit and peeled back about 30 feet [about nine metres] of guardrail, and had launched itself and snapped some pine trees off approximately 25 feet [about 7.6 metres] in the air," Jim Sawkins, fire chief for the Township of Muskoka Lakes, told CBC News.The speed limit for that section of road is 80 km/h. Sawkins said he believed the car was travelling much faster.The deaths helped prompt new legislation that will put a strict ban on drinking for any driver 21 and under.A fourth member of the party, Nastasia Elzinga, 19, of Toronto survived the crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afro poppa Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Well the people that weren't actually serving the people booze are vicariously responsible because they are the powers that be for ClubLink. They could be responsible for hiring the people that served the booze, for poorly training them, for implementing steps of service in times when people are really drunk etc. Or the servers could have been told by their manager to keep serving them because they needed the money etc...Either way its an awful situation and as a bartender it makes me think twice before I pour that extra shot of tequila to the guy who has been at my bar for a few hours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 The concept of vicarious responsibility is absurb.If I go to The Beer Store and buy a 24 and drink it all and jump off a bridge, the president of the Beer Store and the employee murdered me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1160699Aloha,Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 It's similar to blaming The Dead for the actions of their management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 From the National Post article:"Take the case of the Ottawa bar where a server refused a clearly inebriated customer, only for an inspector to pop up and tell her the man was now her responsibility and she was obliged to either escort him home or sober him up with a free meal." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 so we get free meals if we get drunk at bars? best deal ever!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Agreed! And the best part is if I decide to stick fries up my nose and swallow a burger whole I can charge the bar with suffucation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 And if I put all my drinks on your tab perhaps the bar is liable for that theft... heheh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Boy 2.0 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Don't forget to tell the Elmdale Tavern owners to tip the delivery guy generously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishtaper Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Tyler Mulcahy drove drunk and killed his two buddies. Reports at the time indicated that Mulcahy's parents would be going after the Lake Joseph Club. These charges are said to be politically motivated, fueled by powerful, wealthy vacationers, looking to cast blame and arguing that the Club should have stopped serving these kids and taken Tyler's keys away. It is tragic that these kids died. Since their deaths, Mulcahy's parents seem to have looked inward as well, citing a lack of parental guidance as a key factor in the deaths. They have also petitioned the Premier's Office to change young driver laws in Ontario to reflect zero tolerance for any blood alcohol level and tough penalties for speeding. I agree Velvet, applying strict liability on the club's owners is indeed overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\/\/illy Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I heard a lawyer on CBC saying he expected there was no chance there'd be a conviction in this case. He was an independant and not involved in the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I heard a lawyer on CBC saying he expected there was no chance there'd be a conviction in this case. He was an independant and not involved in the case.Yeah, so it's a huge waste of time and money.I can't imagine that a bar is now considered day-care-at-night for adults who drink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa. Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 It's all in the manual. Smartserve tells you all of these facts when you take the course....doesn't make it logical though. Having worked at the Beer Store i had to undergo training to learn my legal responsibilities regarding overserving as well. A fella that i worked with was under investigation years ago because he served beer to a local wino that passed out on the tracks here in KW and got killed. nothing came of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigger Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 (edited) charge the person drinking and that's it .Can you sue the LCBO for selling you booze then getting loaded ....NO.. same for the rest.sorry about your kids , take it on the chin.Is the bar responsible for travellers that almost all cottagers have with them..just more claims against the state to hold the publics hands. Edited January 13, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Tyler Mulcahy's parents should have taken the keys away from him due to his past driving offenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Cars should all have breathalysers and autopilot settings for when we're too wasted to drive.All this talk of laws and abiding by them...Why not just make it so that nobody can break the law?I think we'd all be much happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Here's another one for this issue:Police investigate Cornwall establishment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Phishtaper nailed it. Were it not for the wealth and very public ie. full page ads to the Premier in various major publications campaign by the Mulcahy family this case wouldn't be where it is. If it was some groundskeepers kids from Bracebridge would anyone give a shit? I think we all know the answer is no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa. Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 totally agree, zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 Here's another example of blame being thrown around when the driver, and the people with the driver should be the only ones held accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelter Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 All of these archaic liquor laws stem directly from Prohibition. When Ontario became 'wet' again, bars couldn't even have a sign out front or a window for common folk to see the sins of the tavern. Patrons weren't allowed to stand up with their drinks (because drinking a lot while sitting down is wise) and in fact pubs couldn't even serve food - logic being that drunkards would eventually get hungry and go home and be with their loving families.Genders were segregated, food actually became mandatory WITH a drink (not just in the same establishment), home brewing and brew pubs were completely forbidden ... we've come a long way! Now most of that has been done away with, but being drunk in a place that serves beverages that make you drunk is against the law (which to me is as logical as not being allowed to get in shape at a gym). I know a lot of people that can drink me under the table and come across looking reasonably sober ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattm Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 Here's another example of blame being thrown around when the driver, and the people with the driver should be the only ones held accountable.hold on a second, this is a secret link to the onion, right? This isn't really happening? Someone tell me that there's absolutely 0% chance this will end in any money whatsoever from the city or any of the other parties involved because that would be sick. Sue the bars for selling alcohol and the bus for going through a green light?Ummmmmmmm, can everyone counter sue him for the trouble he caused by directly being at fault for the accident (he let his buddy drive, 100% at fault and also at fault for the death of his friends). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanada Kev Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 Someone tell me that there's absolutely 0% chance this will end in any money whatsoever from the city or any of the other parties involved because that would be sick. Hopefully not. However we all know that the LAWYERS will be scooping up their share from this whole thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry_llama Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 ...died after the drunk who was driving the car they were riding in burst drove it through a guardrail and struck a tree before ending up landing it on its side in the Joseph River....While returning to the cottage the car driver hit a guardrail on the Joseph River bridge, crashed through trees and plunged into the water. "The vehicle driver had hit and peeled back about 30 feet [about nine metres] of guardrail, and had launched itself launched the car and snapped some pine trees off approximately 25 feet [about 7.6 metres] in the air," Jim Sawkins, fire chief for the Township of Muskoka Lakes, told CBC News.The speed limit for that section of road is 80 km/h. Sawkins said he believed the car driver was travelling driving much faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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