Fate of Can Jam?

[Deeps]

Deeps I am confused..."Jimmy Swift is a younger band and thus should be allowed to carry the torch"

...those boy's have been around for a long time. I really don't think you should count bands out for being either too young or too old. That kind of talk is silly, and frankly ticks me off.

Sorry bro did not mean to bring age into it. Actually it was rather inadvertant....I think I could have more accurately described them as undercelebrated and thus newer. Newer not younger....my apologies. Also I believe their sound is maturing a little later than BnB and the Fat Cats and thus the feel of them being younger.

Them being from out of town doesn't hurt this either I know.

This debate is defintely not intended to divide and just philisophical waxing on this culture...I am sorry if I offended.

Much respect.

Deeps

PS I think you only have a year and half on me....so yeah I'm hoping that things are allowed to start late.

[Deeps]

I find it fitting that I was listening to the Jonestown Death Tape as I was posting some of the above suspect comments.

I really must say...there was no disrespect to any bands mentioned above. I have been front row at many of their performances.

The main point of this debate was how to revitalise the scene (all debate about existence of the scene relaxed) and my main points remain.

1. It's up to younger bands being supported and encouraged to bring new sounds and through their own means getting off their asses and playing all over.

2. More experienced bands pushing their sound around.

3. Festivals varying headlining slots so as to coax the kids in.

I agree it's a beautiful thing and it don't necessarily need to get real big to be good. I like it the way it is really...I think it is successful, but stable it's not right now so thanks Luke for bringing it up and again I love all people in this "scene" warts and all including myself.

Cheers

[Gr8FuL]

All i can say about The Can Jam Scene as of late is of course its changing and adapting as all things do, But atleast where i'm from its changing for the better ithink, the crowds are constantley growing at the live music venues. There's also loads of new up and coming bands trying to get their own following and get started playing some venues all over the place it seems.

The "scene" will always flourish if there's good music to keep people coming back for more.

[dimafleck: the living legend.]

"Also, all you fuckers are getting older and there is very little new blood in the 'scene.' Fuck, Dima's the youngest guy here and he's no torchbearer."

-Shainhouse

woah woah woah....

no way would i want to be a torchbearer for a scene that is dead. i'm young, but i'm also smart enough to know when a ship is sinking. eat shit all of yous.

everything about Jambands as a "scene" is boring..... long live moe., phish, and nero.

the only 3 jambands that ever meant anything.

thats right....the grateful dead didn't mean shit you old hippie bastard....just because you ate some acid and creamed your panties to jerrt doens't make it good alright....Jerry's quitar playing was average...AT BEST.... fuck you....you got a butt that won't quit shainhouse.....and they have these penuts here with the little roasted on em......5 dollars?? get out of here....

Edited August 15, 2006 by Guest

[\/\/illy]

I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned that the drug scene influences the music scene and that the drug scene has changed significantly in the last 3 or 4 decades. Being 'stoned' lends itself to the enjoyment of certain types of music. Being 'high' on MDA/MDMA lends itself to the enjoyment of other types of music. These are not hard and fast rules but they are factors in that which we are discussing none the less. I think if everyone was hanging out smoking pot, there'd be far fewer people dancing all night long to DJs and far more interested in 'jam' music.

The Fat Cats SHOULD have been headlining that festival. If you want to see JSB headline then go out east and see them.

[Baj]

I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned that the drug scene influences the music scene and that the drug scene has changed significantly

best point yet!

[guigsy]

I think if everyone was hanging out smoking pot, there'd be far fewer people dancing all night long to DJs and far more interested in 'jam' music.

i dunno, i've seen people on obscene amounts of mda/mdma who were very interested in "jam" music.... yourself included.

[\/\/illy]

i dunno, i've seen people on obscene amounts of mda/mdma who were very interested in "jam" music.... yourself included.

Scott. As you know, I refrain from drug use but, I do get your point and, in fact, agree. In fact, I did try to get across that this isn't a hard and fast rule. I've seen people smoke tonnes of pot and love DJ music. However, if we can speak in generalizations, I do believe that popular drugs influence popular music.

[zero]

I love how Dima is like the new choda of the scene. What kind of a douchebag says they love moe, phish and nero but that Jerry's a shitty guitar player. I mean I guess he's baiting but given his resin clogged maggot brain somehow one doubts it.

This is sort of a weird point to make here but one thing that really interests me about some of the indy music collectives (Blocks Recording Club and I might be mistaken but Dependent records i.e. Wintersleep and Holy Fuck) is that they're cooperatively owned. I guess I mention it because the East Coast festivals are having a tough year and this was our high water mark. Here we've got Come Together and sure it's 'a lot of people working really hard for nothing but a lot of grief' but somehow you sense whoever's running the show wouldn't want to share the reins. I see a future anyway in us sharing the financial burden of putting on shows and festivals, equipping ourself with a corporate structure that externalize and minimizes loss and liability, and presenting what we know best- diverse, grinding, exhuberant, transcendant and responsive live shows.

The great thing about Blocks is that they do all the DIY album covers and packaging and even artists like Final Fantasy who pay the bills with their profiles still stitch or fold dust covers. I just can't see a bunch of pot heads doing that even though it sounds crafty and fun and really cool. I think it's sort of my way of agreeing with the drugs affect music thread but more drugs affect initiative.

[dimafleck: the living legend.]

all i'm saying is jerry was a talentless hack.

[guigsy]

:thumbup:

thanks for the post-work chuckle.... needed it tonite.

but, i dunno if its drugs influencing music or music influencing drug use... ie: do the burties change their sound because these days people are all about the oxy's, compared to the good ole days when all you needed was a needle and a spoon, or do people decide that because there's music they need to get fucked up on something, thus the music scene harbours a drug scene... i dunno, but i do get where you're at.

you know me, i was feelin' a little cheeky...

pot is to jam what e is to electronica what coke is to swedish speed metal what opium is to judy garland, and so on down the line...

[dimafleck: the living legend.]

the biggest problem with Jam...and canjam in perticular is that the fans/artists aren't good looking enough and aren't image oriented.

and i'm not joking or poking fun this time..

i'm being dead serious.

its true.

people that go to shows are usually trendy these days....and there is nothign trendy about jambands....

oh and you all smell bad.

Edited August 16, 2006 by Guest

[FunkyBeats]

I'll pick up that fucking torch! The whole jamband concept still ignites my soul. It just takes time to get to know your bandmates well enough to do it well.

[dimafleck: the living legend.]

clearly you're part of the problem.

all this soul igniting and getting to know your band mates was burried in the mud pits at coventry and is now dried up dirt....cows are shitting all over your ignited soul as i type this.....no wait...thats my soul.

Edited August 16, 2006 by Guest

[FunkyBeats]

Well, maybe I'm your salvation, bitch!

[ersh]

This one's long.

I don't know if we can predict the 'fate' of the canjam scene as Zero questions. I don't think it will prosper or die completely... the country is just too small. I do think it's slightly on the decline right now, maybe a little confused, but I'm pretty sure it will always be around - thanks to the millions of jam fans in the USA.

The jam scene in the USA is HUGE, but that of course is directly related to their population. Because of the number of people, the cities are real close, and the bands can tour nonstop - thus keeping them afloat.

In Canada, the jam scene is small - like our population. When touring to or from Western Canada, there's some serious drives involved... the cities ARE NOT close together.... and the jam friendly crowds are small. With gas prices where they are these days... a tour to the West is barely possible. I bet a lot of people who come out to jam shows these days might not even think of themselves as 'jam' fans... they're perhaps just into that particular band. Whether that leads them to other bands in the scene or not is questionable - as most candian jam bands don't musically share that much in common. I know that I never thought of the folks who came to see BNB as 'jam' fans. I've always seen them as people looking to have fun and enjoy live music. We tend to stretch it out for them to enjoy longer sometimes.

Jambands don't get their crowds from radio play or videos. They get them from playing shows... lots of shows. Word of mouth and live show trading also play a large part in bringing in new fans.

I found that with BNB, when we were touring relentlessly was when we did the best. That's how people heard of us... we were always playing in their town. As soon as the touring slowed down, the crowds thinned out. Kingston is a good example for BNB of a city that we lost due to lack of touring. We used to do enormous shows at Alfies when we hit it regularly. When we broke up, we missed a year of playing there... we missed the new faces that showed up. And then we even missed the beginning of the school year the next year too. So when we finally made it back to Kingston.... maybe almost two years away... people didn't know who were were anymore. How would they? Playing was our only means of spreading the word.

Here's the old guy in me kicking in now.

When we left Thunder Bay and started touring in 97, we still hadn't grown up (not that we'd wanted to!). We were able to pick up and move to a new town whenever we wanted, had little to no possessions, and had no money pits other than the band. We've toured coast to coast 20 times and played 1000+ gigs since then... with 3/4 of that being in the first 5 years. However, once we moved to TO and settled down a bit, we found it wasn't as easy to tour like we used to. If we lost money on a tour, we felt it deeper. We had to make rent each month. We had bills, girlfriends/wives/famlilies, and our futures digging their claws into us as we drew inevitably closer to 30. We slowed down... and once we did the momentum was lost, and almost impossible to get back. Like our youth.

A few years ago we noticed something else. A lot of our fans had grown up. There were fewer and fewer familiar faces showing up. Not necessarily because they didn't like us anymore, but because some people had moved on to new things - new music, families, jobs..... not going out to the bar to see rock and roll and getting totally shit faced and staying up for a week and doing more drugs than the 60's. We started meeting people at shows who told us that their older brother or sister used to play them tapes. We saw a generation switch over. It was pretty wierd when we realized what was happening.

As bands get older, it gets harder. If we'd somehow magically been able to stay on the road, things would be different now.

So I say let the younger bands step up! Kick our asses! I think Deeps is dead right. The older bands that are still here are still at it, but it's up to the kids.

A lot of the people who got into the can jam bands 10 years ago did so because of the Grateful Dead and eventually Phish as well. This was music that they listened to and then found their own versions in the their own towns. Some of these people had this music passed on to them from their brothers and sisters and parents. It might be harder for people to find those same references these days, with the dead and phish gone from touring. People are having to find other avenues that lead them to can jam.

The bands that are inspiring kids to play improvisational music are not the same ones that did when I started playing. The jam scene has definately been 'infiltrated' by new music... 'indie' music perhaps. This is evident in the wide wide spectrum of music that we all listen to. I don't listen to jam music that much anymore... jazz is about as close as I get these days.

AAAAAAAaaahh..... I don't know. The scene and the music are changing. This is good. The scene is so varied... I find these days that most fans of 'jam' music, are actually just fans of 'live' music. I'm babbling. Perhaps the scene is dragging because the young bands aren't touring enough!!!

JSB isn't young by any means... but those guys have got it right in their amount of gigging. They're probably the hardest touring band in Canada right now.

So it's up to the young bands to tour their asses off, age extra years, play play play! Tour, tour tour!!! Carry the torch. Hell... build a newer and better one!

Jeff

[Blane]

Maybe it just grew up. I think if we look a bit outside the "hemp n' dreads" version of canjam there is a whole ton of music that embraces the qualities that we appreciate in improv music.

A few locals that come to mind:

Torngat

People for Audio

Bell Orchestre

The Unireverse

Moondata

Edited August 16, 2006 by Guest

[kc]

Thread of the Year!

[shainhouse]

I agree with Blane. All those bands are 'jambands' in a sense. What about the old Kitchens and Bathrooms in Hamilton, or now The Battleship Ethel or the Put on Your Drinking Cap collective? Post-rock is a jam scene, and there are loads of bands, here and abroad that are creating interesting music. iLiKETRAiNS, friends of mine from Leeds on Fierce Panda in Canada is a perfect example. What about The Cat Empire as well, incorporating cuban rhythms like The Motet used to do? God, I could go on...

[Booche]

Dima, it's over for us.

I am no longer courting your dumb-ass.

[bradm]

Dima, it's over for us.

I am no longer courting your dumb-ass.

Has the next object of your affection been selected?

Aloha,

Brad

[Booche]

It aint you Poindexter.

[bradm]

It aint you Poindexter.

Must I remain in a bipolar giddy state of quivering nervous hope and debilitating trepidation? No matter.

In the end it took me a dictionary

To find the meaning of unrequited

While she was giving herself for free

At a party to which I was never invited

I'll still give you shows, and gape in fond disbelief at your cute inability to recognize "401 Theme."

Aloha,

Brad

[boiler]

AAAAAAAaaahh..... I don't know. The scene and the music are changing. This is good. The scene is so varied... I find these days that most fans of 'jam' music, are actually just fans of 'live' music.

This probably sums it up the best way. The scence is "live music" fans, not jam band fans. I've herd many different performers, thank fans for supporting live music not, thanks for supporting the jam scence. To "Jam" is a pretty loose definition, as most bands jam. Death Metal bands jam.

Edited August 16, 2006 by Guest

[Groove Fetish]

and our futures digging their claws into us as we drew inevitably closer to 30.

best line ever!