Fate of Can Jam?

[bradm]

I don't do it for the money, I do it for my soul

but if the money's not here, I'll be moving on

because my soul can't buy me what I need to eat

put food on the table or shoes on my feet

but I don't do it for the money, I do it for my soul

I'd have that second last line end in "...shoes on my kids' feet". I don't know if the situation would (literarily) be described as paradoxical; ironic, maybe, because the two loves of the singer's life (music vs. family) are at odds with each other.

Aloha,

Brad

[SaggyBalls]

I think it's going to boil down to who sounds fresh and is danceable and still appeals to a rock and roll crowd.

and has a crowd that dances and parties and has facial hair (or not) and has a penchant for slight debaucherous directives.

anyone? it's all about liking all sorts of music and not necessarily blending them all together in a set...unless it's done really well. can the band jam or does it seem like a mindless meandering garble?

what ever happened to big sugar? king cobb steelie? they moved on and are still making great music but those bands sounded like they'd have ruled the scene if they had gotten in there.

it's mostly coastal now. freeflow, slammin jack, the masses, high plains drifter, the bus, JSB...

what do party people go to shows to see?

fun, challenging music that sounds great.

Jam as a genre really misses the mark - even if some of the bands are stellar.

less hokey means more fans.

[Pablo Sanchez]

The fucking music press, pompous indy rock guzzlers, promoters, industry hacks who listen to Feist when they make oral sex with a dental dam and think they're cool- they all hate us or just don't even give a shit.

Luke,

You make me laugh. Thank you.

[bradm]

The fucking music press, pompous indy rock guzzlers, promoters, industry hacks who listen to Feist when they make oral sex with a dental dam and think they're cool- they all hate us or just don't even give a shit.

I'm adding "Dental Dam Nation" to my list of song titles (to be written). (And that's the second one I've got from this thread, "Baron von Wasteland" being the other.)

Aloha,

Brad

[Booche]

If Charlie Parker Were A Gunslinger, There'd Be a Whole Lot of Dead Copycats

[dimafleck: the living legend.]

Dima, it's over for us.

I am no longer courting your dumb-ass.

pssshhh PLEASE bitch....you'll come crawling back...just like you always do...

i'll be sitting here, waiting patiently , excited as ever for the make up sex.

[zero]

I must say that did feel rather inspired and cathartic on my end. And I am digging 'Dental Dam Nation' hard.

[nattyMatty]

I wish i had some input

[scottieking]

Thanks to all for an entertaining discussion but at Dental Dam Nation this thread has offically

[nattyMatty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Qi8PVKLlc&search=Van%20Morrison

[Booche]

Suck it up Dima and deal with it. No more reach-arounds for you, ya damn noobie-wannabe. Dont call me until you realize the genius of Garcia. Keep in mind I will know if you are bullshitting.

Go listen to 09-21-72. Pronto.

[bouche]

I can't believe how much I have to catch up when I leave the computer for a couple of hours.

I thought what Heisholt had to say was fantastic.

I am also seeing why the Burt Neilson Band ended up a foursome. So they could each live on $20/day instead of 5 or 10

So now it comes down to Mike Filipowitsch and Dave Lauzon wanting to hit the road. How about a Train guys? Festival Express Part II

As for people having style. Who's got more style than ...

[mark tonin]

I don't do it for the money' date=' I do it for my soul

but if the money's not here, I'll be moving on

because my soul can't buy me what I need to eat

put food on the table or shoes on my feet

but I don't do it for the money, I do it for my soul

[/quote']

I'd have that second last line end in "...shoes on my kids' feet". I don't know if the situation would (literarily) be described as paradoxical; ironic, maybe, because the two loves of the singer's life (music vs. family) are at odds with each other.

Aloha,

Brad

Hey Brad, I was thinking more along the lines that it is paradoxical that the primary motivation for many musicians to play music is not making money, but if they don't make enough money playing music, they have to play less music to make the money that they need to enjoy playing music.

Peace, Mark

[Hal Johnson]

Ive thought long and hard about what to say, but the only thing I can think of is that BNB and GTB as well as a few others have written some truly amazing stuff that deserves way more recognition than just what comes from this little scene.

I saw a link once to a pettition that was asking Q107 (toronto's classic rock station) for a Grateful Dead radio hour. I think a Can Jam thing would be much more useful. Imagine how many classic rock fans out there absolutely love the Fat Cats but dont even know it yet?

[Baj]

fucking BRILLANT (said like the guys on the guiness comercials)

[dark_starr]

Trey Anastasio once said something that I take to be 100% correct: that if you're going to take true inspiration from the Dead, you'll end up sounding nothing like them.

Then I guess that we've learned our lesson well.

Though open to different interpretation, great songwriting never goes out of style.

Let there be songs... to fill the air...

[MK]

Zero - a truly great thread. A conversation that absolutely needs to be had yearly.

Although I don't think anyone really responded to your headline: Fate of Can Jam. In general the posts seem to be responding to: State of Can Jam.

A little pontification:

After Santana first played with Phish he told Trey something to the effect of,"When you guys were playing, I was picturing the audience as this sea of flowers, the music was the water, and you guys were the hose."

To expand that analogy a bit, the entire scene is the sea of flowers and right now the flower bed is drying up. Luckily the seasons change. This scene is perennial and will bloom again. A large number of people just need to get hosed down.

I remember watching a lot of Conan O'Brien in 1997. The deadpan wit Stephen Wright was a guest one night. When Conan asked him what he was there to promote, he pulled out a copy of Billy Breathes and said, "I'm promoting this." But that's besides the point. I remember another night, after Conan had finished his monologue he got to his desk and in his over-the-top manner, looked at the camera and said, "I saw Phish last night and...IT'S A SCENE BABY!! A SCENE."

Now this is pre-John Stewart and in '97 Conan is a legit cultural barometer so, I like to think that that moment is the moment the scene officially became a full blown well-watered garden.

At the time Phish was peaking and watering the garden with the media firehose; they were also planting seeds. When the audience for live music came to look for that between-tour placebo, it turned inward. Phish-influenced bands began to form with a built-in scene to play to.

Great local bands got gigs. The party oriented crowd pleased bar owners. The bands toured and played more and more and more. The more they played the better they got. The bands that played the most gained the most skills and the biggest audiences. New people were looking for that placebo all the time.

Then the new mellenium came and the new people stopped showing up. The hose got clogged with drugs and baggage. Phish broke down.

Luckily, the scene had built itself up in case of emergency. Many improvising bands still thrived and watered small pockets of the garden. The scene carried on and still does. But the new people stopped coming.

Even when Phish was peaking, people left the scene for families, jobs, other interests all the time. This shrinkage was always compensated for by the large numbers of new scenesters Phish produced until 2000. But, with no Phish, there's no new fans. Hence shrinkage. But, by no means atrophy.

This message board keeps the scene alive.

This message board is a true artifact of the scene or, if you will, the spirit. For years to come members will recognize each other at shows and festivals. The youth will witness a portion of the crowd that seems to be together - on the same beat. The kids who can appreciate muscianship will want to be on that beat. The kids who want to have fun will want to be on that beat. It's a scene, impossible to kill. Unless, of course, Bouche takes this message board offline.

As for the fate:

In 2018 a band of sexy dudes who rely on grooves, musicianship, improvisation and songwriting will record a smash hit song with mildly political lyrics. The song somehow manages to speak to the left-leaning, drug-using, evrironmentally inclined, optimistic nihlists.

The band of sexy dudes becomes popular and the media touts their live shows as hedonistic playgrounds. They tour endlessly and become the aptest players...ever.

The words jamband and Phish become part of an outdated lexicon. They connotate drugs, musical meanderings and patcholi punch-lines. The media says that this band of sexy dudes plays a style of music called Bonnaroo.

"Sounds like mischievious fun! Let's check it out!"

Live sound advances to an ultra-advanced state - even in bars. Audience members wear miniscule wireless headphones all tuned to the same frequency. Boys and girls alike come to love live music. Live thrives locally in clubs. The stadiums, where the Band of Sexy Dudes play, broadcast the shows to clubs live and google-hi-def TVs present the concerts as if they are actual.

More and more people see BSD and marvel at the scene.

"Hey!! haven't seen you since Guelph!! Great show! Yeah, I read that shit you said on the Sanctuary, that was a great thread!!"

One night on Late Night with Luke Bowden, after his monologue, he stumbles over to his desk and says in his hyper-active manner, "I saw those Sexy Dudes last night, AND IT'S A SCENE BABY!!! CRANK THE NUT ON THAT HYDRANT, HERE COMES THE HOSE!!!"

It will grow again.

KiK

Note: "Grateful Dead" can be substituted for "Phish" in most instances.

[mark tonin]

MK, thanks for adding to this thread with a fresh perspective ... well said!

Peace, Mark

[Deeps]

The Fat-Asses Jerry Day jam just showed up on the board.

Our culture is amazingly adept at preserving the culture as it happened in society and not just in the studio. This might help crank that nut in a way the indie scene can't.

Thanks to the tapers for their contribution.

And M I hope you're right. Very nicely put.

Deeps

[cANDYmAN]

This is a great thread. 'ersh, well put!

We were able to pick up and move to a new town whenever we wanted, had little to no possessions, and had no money pits other than the band.

There was some quality stuff over the past 10 years in Canada. It was all lumped into canjam but was really great live music in general (with or without the jam). Recipe from a Small Planet, Nero, BnB, Blue Quarter... man that's a lot of shows. If you add JSB to the mix (current torch carriers and still rockin'), that's one helluva challenge if you ask me! Tour, tour, tour!!

Ahhh the road! Borscht just outside of winnipeg, those great roadside 'bars' on the way to the maritimes and of course the ping pong table in sudbury! I can't say anymore as per section 1 of the canjam touring policy! lol

Here's something for all the road dawgs... what was your longest (NON-STOP) haul to make the next gig?

[Demsky]

This is such a hard topic to discuss because the ideals behind the term "Jamband" are scattered very far across other genres. Bela Fleck and the Flecktones are not a Jamband, yet they are ridiculous musicians that pull out crazy time signatures so we claim them as our own. Remember they are recognized in the grammy's as a jazz group. MMW are not even a jamband because they don't go off on a tangent like everyone thinks they do. All their jams are well thought out and structured in order for fluidity to be conducted in their pieces.

Festivals like Bonnaroo, Shoreline, and Lollapalooza are festivals that have good music and only good music, NOT genre specific. Shainhouse was right quoting Duke Ellington. "There is only two kinds of music, good and bad. We genre-tize bands in the media to make it easier to talk about them, and promoters label bands and stick them together". I think the audiences should evolve with the music OR step out of their JAMBAND neiche and see what else is tickles their fancies.

MY timeline into the Jam community was untraceable back in the day. I listened to music that I thought was great and I always labeled them under the genre of great music. Here is a short timeline. Arrested Development --->Blues Traveler--->Collective Soul--->Dave Matthews Band--->moe. and so forth. The Spades are not considered a Jamband, but they kick some serious butt because they are great musicians. Vanderpark has always been a Rock group yet we play in the jam community because we love the crowds openess to all types of sounds. Let us not lose this notion because that's why we all fell in love with it in the first place. Just look for the honesty in music and you'll do just fine.

"It's easy to find the bad things in life, but to find the good things always seems to be a little bit trickier"

[GUITARZAN]

Longest haul non stop?

Correct if I'm wrong 'ersh but I think we as BNB did Canmore to London? or Sudbury? straight.

40 some odd hours of travel. good times

mike

[nattyMatty]

Im not in a band, But have been on the Road a few times. I remember driving from collingwood to wheeling west viginia picking up two kids driving outa red rocks, seeing the P&F shows there for 2 days then driveing them back to WV then back upto collingwood. staying for less then 24 hours then back down to pineknob. It was fun, I like it on the road always new things too look at. The windshield is the ultimate T.V... I guess running the TC back inforth could become like a rerun.. I would like to learn how to set up band equipment and become a roadie.

[edger]

I think we as BNB did Canmore to London? or Sudbury? straight.

40 some odd hours of travel. good times

mike

Ah, god bless your endurance...

Much appreciated

[The Chameleon]

jamband, rock band, funk band, improvising band, jazz band whatever you call it it doesn't matter.

The stonecold reality in this country is finances and lack therof. That is the problem with developing as a band, touring and reaching the next level of popularity and acceptance in the Canadian market.

The reality is with the distance bands have to travel and the cost of gas and lodging etc.. ticket rpices should actually be around $20 each. Seriously. At that price bands would be making a meeger living.

The problem is we are all accustomed to paying $5-10 for band that are local, or up and coming and we only really want to break out the $20+ for big name acts. So the bands that actually need you money the most, the bands doing it themselves on thier own dime with no industry support can't charge a fair price, 'cause no one will pay that. So in consequence many "can jam-bands" are forced to play for really low door fees, to entice peoiple to check them out.

The irony is the big acts that you are willing to pay $20+ for don't need your money as band as they can play bigger venues and actually charge less (if they wanted to) as they play to greater numbers.

It's areal catch 22. How do you continue fianncially when you are not even making minimum wage.

I myself have often been in a position of having to go against the Toronto Musicians Union (which I am a memeber of). It is written in the union agreement that no member shall play for less than something like $90 for a 3hr show, and must be paid more for prep time.

Now anyone who has booked shows or played shows in our scene knows thatis not a reality. Even if you have a trio and you get paid $250 (normal pay), that is less than minimum wage! When you consider the prep time, travel and all, you are actually loosing money!

So technically by playing those shows I could be expelled from the union as a scab worker! So what option do I have? If i don't take those gigs, I would never play.

The sad reality is that 90% of all the bands you see in the "scene" are actually paying to play and working for slave wages.

We do it for the love and the hope that one day we will actually be paid for our craft as any craftsperson should be.

To quote a Little Feat song: "No Romance without Finance".

Until the venues, festivals, and fans realize they need to pay more to support quality music and in turn help it grow, nothing wil change. Only very few bands from "our scene" will ever breakthrough and prosper and most likely they will do so in the US, where the fianacial dichotomy is much more realistic.

Sad truth is that much of this all boils down to $$$$ and the fact that local Canadian bands (especially Jambands) don't get paid shit!

Think of it this way, if a local band got paid more, they could afford to travel further, play more shows, upgrade gear, quit thier jobs and focus on making the music better..the end result is that the music the fans will hear will be on a higher level, more exciting and professional. But as long as the wage scale is static the scene will also be static and possibly stagnant.

My 2 cents.

Even sadder is the fact that most bands (including mine) would be thrilled just to break even most knights.

Edited August 17, 2006 by Guest