The quandary on "hot teen"

[AdamH]

I have a question.

As males we are, let's face it, programmed to find "young" girls more "beautiful" than "older" or "mature" girls. Those quotes (and any others) can mean whatever you want it to mean.

Witness the billions of porn tapes, websites and chatlines that create a fictional encounter with a "teen" and wonder, like I have, how many male teens are actually calling that number or visiting that website vs. men perhaps in their 30s, 40s and 50s. There's an entire undustry built around the idea of "barely legal"....supposing that the girls featured have just passed a magic year after which they're adult enough to display their wares.

I don't support child pornography. I think it's categorically wrong in every respect. I believe it's wrong because a "child" doesn't have the wherewithall to know what he/she is doing. I'm sometimes not convinced that two people in their late-20s know what they're doing either but that's besides the point

So where does that leave us then? Does finding a young girl attractive make you a pedophile? What is the distinction between saying "she's hot" about a presumed 18 year-old versus saying it about a 14 year old?

Canadaian Law says:

The Criminal Code does not now criminalize consensual sexual activity with or between persons 14 or over, unless it takes place in a relationship of trust or dependency, in which case sexual activity with persons over 14 but under 18 can constitute an offence, notwithstanding their consent. Even consensual activity with those under 14 but over 12 may not be an offence if the accused is under 16 and less than two years older than the complainant. The exception, of course, is anal intercourse, to which unmarried persons under 18 cannot legally consent, although both the Ontario Court of Appeal(3) and the Quebec Court of Appeal(4) have struck down the relevant section of the Criminal Code.

Which, if you think about it, is somewhat ridiculous in putting two people between 14 and 18 at thee court's whim (as I read it) but not a 36-year old and a 15 year old.

I'm looking for some interesting discussion on this subject. Also this could be moved to the POlitics forum if need be moderators.

Edited January 5, 2007 by Guest

[balogna pogna]

I recently stopped thinking high school girls were hot.

I think I need Paxil.

[Freeker]

Rule #1 ?

[paisley]

thinking someone too young is hot is one thing... a lot of older people probably think "If I was 16 again I'd..." at some point, because they were 16 at some point... most likely good if they don't think that too frequently or

making a serious play for someone too young is different... guess there's some lines between playful flirting and flirting with intent as well

pretty sure you shouldn't talk about this while watching hockey

paxil

[ollie]

Great topic.

Remember the countdown clock before the Olsen twins turned 18? That's just one example of the pro-pedophilia bent of our pop culture. And at the same time we judge pedophilia to be one of the most horrific crimes imaginable. So fucked up.

Edit to clarify that I think the hypocrisy is fucked up, not the horrific crime part.

[The Chameleon]

The young girls usually seem hot until you talk to them and they reveal themselves to be the mental children they are.

I personally find women 25+ hot. Older women who have taken care of themselves are way hotter than some 18year old that hasn't had the time to fuck themselves up yet.

Older women who are physically attractive and also have the mature mentality to act normally and not engage in head games, are truly hot.

Edited January 5, 2007 by Guest

[Booche]

Remember the countdown clock before the Olsen twins turned 18? That's just one example of the pro-pedophilia bent of our pop culture.

Wouldnt the moral of that website suggest one of anti-pedophillia?

[StoneMtn]

Are you familiar with the term "hebophile" aka "ephebophile"?

Ephebophilia has been defined as a sexual preference in which an adult is primarily or exclusively sexually attracted to postpubescent adolescents. It comes from the έφηβος (ephebos) variously defined as "one arrived at puberty", "a youth of 18 who underwent his dokimasia and was registered as a citizen (Athens)", and "arriving at man's estate"; and φιλία (-philia) "love". Despite this classical etymology it is a term of recent coinage, created by psychologist John Money in the late twentieth century. It has been used by the Frenchman Felix Buffiere in 1980 and described at length by Tariq Rahman who argues that it should be used in preference to 'homosexuality' for describing grown men's aesthetic and erotic interest in adolescent boys when classical literatures in Persian, Turkish or Urdu are under discussion.

Contrary to the impression left by the above quote, a hebophile digs people of either sex, who have just gone through puberty; and many psychologists regard this as absolutely normal.

More info here.

[Esau.]

Before I picture a girl naked, I always picture her going into a beer or liquor store for me first. If she comes out with booze, then I know its all good.

[paisley]

lot of people have some pretty intense experiences relating to sexual awakenings at some point in their teens... hormonal overload coupled with vivid physical sensations taken in with a fresh and alert mind

think pop culture definately attempts to exploit these lingering memories and emotions but doubt it creates them... if you really liked chocolate ice cream the first time you had it at the beach you have fond memories of chocolate ice cream at the beach

now why someone wants to be called names by a chubby woman with a butch haircut in a rubber outfit I don't understand

(not that there's anything wrong with that)

Edited January 5, 2007 by Guest
chocolate ice cream

[Booche]

I fucking love you 2 Hamilton boys.

[ollie]

Remember the countdown clock before the Olsen twins turned 18? That's just one example of the pro-pedophilia bent of our pop culture.

Wouldnt the moral of that website suggest one of anti-pedophillia?

No the point of that web site was "Let's lust over these hot underage girls until they are legal".

[Booche]

Well, not from how this reads.

"We have all sat and waited patiently for these two golden wonders to reach the age of eligibility. For some of us...it was Two of a Kind, for others....Full House. No matter how you found them, you're hooked. Well now you can put your calculators and calendars away, Broken Newz has used advanced technology to assure you will not miss the day these two turn 18. Gentlemen, start your engines and get out your best booze. The countdown has begun. The Olsen Twins are waiting for you!"

[bouche]

You have to ask yourself "Did it Move?".

If you answered yes, then she's probably hot.

[AdamH]

I think "hot" was and is highly subjective. If it "moves" while watching degrassi does that label you a pervert?

I think StoneMTN is pointing me where I want to go, and that is understanding more about the what and the why of attraction to someone you know is too young for you. You may conclude they're too young by doing as Chameleon mentions, having a conversation that snaps you into reality.

A friend of mine (29, 30 next month) is dating someone who is 21. Nothing illegal. Same set of drawbacks though on level of maturity. She still lives at her parent's house too. And yet he says the sex is wild partly, I think, BECAUSE she is so young and not because of technique or experience or whatever. Which is why for some people there ISN'T that interest in the maturity, professionalism, ehathaveyou that an older woman might possess. And that in turn leads to Paisley's assertion that if it's nostalgia that causes the lust, it's nostalgia for the time when everything was uncalculated, somewhat risky and generally not all that "good" in the traditional sense. But you just couldn't WAIT until your parent's left the house so you could rub up against someone and make a mess of yourself while fully clothed.

[CyberHippie]

Whoa a slippery topic to be sure!

All I'm going throw out there is this.... When you are 16, 16 year old girls are hot. Why would they stop being hot just because you get older?

Now that being said, hooking up or persuing a 16 year old girl if you are over 20, just ain't right.

[StoneMtn]

How do you draw the line, though?

In Canada 14 year olds are allowed to have sex. Should the person with whom they are having sex be only 15? 16? 17? 18?

What happens when they turn 17? Should the person they have sex with be only 18? 19? 20?

What about your suggested scenario. A girl is 16. A 20 year-old thinks she's hot. She turns 17. The now-21 year-old is still turned on, but does not pursue her. She turns 18 - Is it now cool for the now-22-year-old to pursue her? Is it relevant if she is still in high-school, and he just graduated university? How about if she turns 19, and he is now 23?

I certainly don't have the answers; just lots of questions.

[afro poppa]

I would never EVER EVER even consider pursuing a girl that is 17 or younger. Even 18 is pushing it.

As well, I would never consider pursuing a girl that ACTS like she is 17 or younger.

As far as whether they are attractive (or hot) or not, I can see how certain girls (17 year olds, 16 year olds) may BECOME attrative (or hot) but I wouln't call them good looking. The years between 17 and 21 are just such huge years in terms of growing your body and mind that there is just too much of a gap there for me to be interested.

edit to add: quite frankly, I like older girls anyway

Edited January 5, 2007 by Guest

[edger]

Older women who are physically attractive and also have the mature mentality to act normally and not engage in head games, are truly hot.

Christ I was hoping somebody would say this!

If "the majority of all men" simply lust for "young" looking girls (whatever your version of "young" may be... than that renders human sexuality pretty simplistic and boring. I'd rather think that people of both genders are probably attracted to a variety of looks, seasons, moments in time, circumstances (one of which may be a youthful, healthy, energized partner). That being said, the thought of a pre-pubescant boy doesn't do much to float my boat.... but then again, I am twelve years younger than my hubby...

I guess I must "like em old'

[bouche]

hey what about the women that go after the young blood? Shouldn't they be included in on this too?

Here's a list.

[phorbesie]

i was gonna mention that earlier but had so many 'erased posts'...women do the same thing.

i think it's kinda hormonal...hehe

[StoneMtn]

I believe that one theory on hebophilia is that men, in particular, like younger women for the reason that animals tend to naturally try to reproduce as much as possible. It ensures the continuation of the species. Simply put, younger women have more eggs.

It is certainly true, though, that women do the same thing, which may blow some holes in the above theory; unless it happens to be far more common behaviour among men than women. Whether that is or is not the case, I don't know.

[mattm]

I'm 28, Steph's 19, works for me

[zero]

I think I'm comfortable admitting that I find teenage girls attractive, even pornography meant to emulate that age bracket. It's maybe a bit scandalous to admit but realistic (some of you are thinking it). I couldn't see myself taking advantage of someone that age though- I'd have the Kevin Spacey American Beauty moment for sure. There's a classic dramatization of this conundrum. Lindsay Lohan is another, as are of course the Olsen twins (hell they were like 3 when they were on television and now they're sex symbols!).

I do have a problem with this Dateline Internet predator special they've been running. Isn't entrapment when you create a situation that wouldn't otherwise exist and lure a person into committing a felony- I don't know if pretending to be a child is strictly speaking entrapment but it comes off as exploitation oddly of the older men. That whole show seems so heavy handed, some of the guys are real pervs but some seem genuinely sick and others seem like they've had the carrot of unattainable youthful women dangled in front of them for so long that they snapped. I think it's a question of sexual addiction in many cases and an industry that cultivates that addiction.

That's the part that bothers me about the neo-pedophilia of our culture- the way that we sexualize young women from younger and younger ages, create a multi billion dollar industry selling thongs to tweens and then act all morally indignant when a handful of the population becomes unhealthily attracted to that age set. There's also something to be said for cow hormones or whatever sexually maturing women at a younger age (larger bust size etc.), as well as the whole aforementioned La Senza Girl phenomena, god knows how many young woman wax for instance that didn't ten years ago - hell five years ago. I think you have a period where sexual mores are being tested and with the collapse of some religious and family traditions you have rampant casual sexuality and the 'hook up' culture. Then of course there's just the straight up Big Red Son (read the essay by David Foster Wallace) of Hollywood. Porn is big business and for big companies you wouldn't expect. I would think along with oil dollars and narco dollars that smut dollars (porn, sex industry with it's connections to slavery etc.) represent huge invisible lagoons of cash.

[mattm]

Big Red Son

Here

Bored at work