MarcO Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 ok. So, here's the deal. We all know that every year at this time, there is the ongoing debate about what Christmas means to a community. Here in Hamilton, we've endured years of squabbling over the "Merry Christmas" lights that are hung from the mountain facade - you may have a similar situation in your community. Some feel a more generic, non-demoninational sign like "Season's Greetings" would be more appropriate. Some maintain that to do so would be to dilute the Christian sentiment at the heart of the season, that this is a Western-society Christian cultural event not meant to be bent to the "politically correct" whims of others. Personally, I am closer to agreeing with the former perspective but am not so put off by the latter as to care that much. Big hairy deal. However, this year I am having trouble ignoring what is happening in Gore Park here in town. For those who don't know, this is a small, City-owned and maintained "green" space located directly in the downtown core between King and Main Sts. I admit it does bug me that they plop a huge nativity scene there every year but this year there's now a sign above the nativity scene saying "Jesus is The Best Gift Of All" and another sign with bible scripture on the other side. This enrages me. "Merry Christmas" I can handle my city government getting behind. It's almost generic anyway. However, "Jesus Is The Best Gift Of All" I have substantial problems with. I believe this is the sort of sentiment best left to private property, not municipally owned parkspace. Like an old codger, I've already written to the City to voice my complaint. No response. Cheers, mayor D'Ianni. Any thoughts? Oh, and Happy Holidays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcane Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 1) It's just their opinion, and it shouldn't be a threat to your spirituality. Preservation of your freedom of speech means listening to a lot of stuff you don't like. Let it go; there are bigger battles to fight. 2) I find the thought that Christmas is predominantly Christian to be utterly laughable. It's largely a combination of commercial interest and pagan ritual. The popular image of Santa Claus (a derivation of Saint Nicolas) was invented by the Coca Cola company, and I'll bet that Santa hardly ever delivers francincense or myrrh anymore, assuming he ever did. (Gold is a perennial favourite, but I'm willing to bet that that has more to do with social status and nooky potential than Christ.) Heck, the Bible even indicates that Christ was probably born in May or June, not just after the Winter Solstice. 3) Christian kids will enforce secularity for you. You can send them to Mass as much as you like, but you'd be unlikely to succeed if you tried to keep them from watching Frosty the Snowman or prevent them from opening their neatly wrapped, Santa-brought Nintendos ... 4) My kid was born on Christmas Day. Back off, mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezy Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 "Jesus is the best gift of all" - whoa, that's waaay too much... It would be suitable within the confines of a Christian church, but not on city property - that's self-righteous preaching on behalf of the city - I'd be offended by it as well. Giv'em shit MarcO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 wow, i hadn't noticed it.... who should i email? hmmm, my aunt works for the city...she's pretty high up...maybe i'll talk to her, she has the same views as myself, and i believe, you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gentlemonkey Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 The Proper Course of Action: Exactly what you did Marco. maybe with a few follow up emails. Suggested Course of Action: turn that nativity scene into a disturbingly sexy barnyard scene.. the city councellors cant ignore that! and the real Jesus will get the joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gentlemonkey Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 ps- great new avatar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Just a comment,not that I care,but I noticed these thinbgs last sunday while downtown,they appear to be written in crayon or magic marker on construction paper or cardboard,not sure but wouldn't the city go to a bit more trouble than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted December 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Funny you should mention that Greg. Here's the response I just got: Hi Marc, Thank you for your email. The City of Hamilton is involved in putting up the nativity scene at Gore Park, however the signs you are referring to were not placed there by the City. The signs will be removed today. If you require further assistance, please contact the Parks Division by e-mail at parks@hamilton.ca or you may contact us by phone at (905) 546-3780. Van For what it's worth the signs were up there for almost two weeks. It's an awfully weird scene down there; right behind the nativity scene is a honki', steamin' hot dog cart. I know there are more important things to worry about, but isn't there always? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 drove by buzzed out the other night and all I noticed was the pretty little blue lights perhaps a little constructive vandalism is in order, add a few extra banners like: "Allah is the best gift of all" - (religious comment) "Microsoft Products are the best gift of all" - (corporate xmas comment) "Caring and Understanding are the best gifts of all" - (community comment) (ps. you should drop a line to the Spec editorials MarcO... I'm not expecting much sympathy from Di Lanni for anything except corporate, mob, christian causes unless there's a huge public outcry) I skipped Jihad, Satan, and Heady Nugs as I'm no longer full of teenage angst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 ah, alls well that ends well I suppose... good work there MarcO (though it puts a damper on my vandalism campaign) damn Jesus freaks (kidding, I actually like stories of Jesus from the big book, but I don't like people who put their beliefs blindly above others) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.Huxtable Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Way to go MarcO! I would be offended by that as well. There may be bigger fish to fry but sardines taste yummy too! I'm not really sure what Christmas means to me, but I still get excited over buying and making gifts for the people I care about, the chance to spoil my honey and see him smile, the glow in my neices and nephew's eyes, some yummy cooking, booze and chocolates, a couple days off work.... It's certainly not religious for me or my family and I try my best to avoid the commercialism aspects of it. What the hell is Christmas anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted December 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Well, I had suspected they weren't city signs but having been up for almost two weeks, I figured they should do something about it. I'm not inclined to just take them down myself although I probably will if they come back. My issue has been resolved but it doesn't have to mean the end of the discussion concerning what's appropriate or not. Let it grow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Ms.Huxtable: What the hell is Christmas anyways? Just another distortion of a story(which I doubt anyway),an excuse for people(not all mind you) to over spend,forget about the under privileged,hungry,other beliefs people have etc etc,for me this time of year is grossly over played. Funny how folks say its about "Jesus" while putting them selfs deep into debt and purchasing things they don't require. If anything,I think folks should say "it's for the kids" that makes sense to me,but not when its shrouded under the "biblical" aspect.Take easter for example,what does a rabbit,brightly colored eggs have to do with this so called "Jesus"? My 2 cents about "christmas"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 I don't look at the religious sides of holidays, but I'm thankful that we have these holidays through-out the year. I'm thankful because they can bring families together and you can spoil your loved ones. And as Sharon said bake good-eats and have good treats. And unfortunately it seems that society needs to have a holiday to slow down and remember the importance of love .....cause of the fast-pace lives that "most" of us live...sometimes we forget these things. Christmas means something different to everyone!! But you're right...nowadays...the religous theme should stay on the churches front lawn...not in public parks. Go get'em tiger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberHippie Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 I'm with ya MarcO. Jesus is the best gift of all, is way over the top, and definetly should not be endorsed by municipal government. Glad to see that is was a "jesus freak" who went ahead and put those signs and not the city... Since we are on the topic... I'm not real down with the whole christmas thing. Sure I think it's great that we have a little time off to get together with family and friends... But the rest of it is a load of bullocks. I hate all the running around you have to do to please family. I hate all the gifts you have to buy for family that you see once or twice a year, which doesn't leave you any money to get a little something for the people that you see every day and mean the most to you. I hate all the fucking commercialism and materialism. I hate that a bunch of people will buy me impersonal gifts that I really don't want or need, that will wind up in the closet, again, with the rest... Now, yes I know I'm luckly to have family and whatnot, but seriously, we need to revamp this whole gift giving tradition. Bah Humbug indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Dysfunctional Family Christmas Every year we get together xmas eve night at Polo's in Hess Village... anyone who doesn't have a big family thing or significant other they're sittin home with or just flat out doesn't dig xmas is more than welcome crowd gets bigger every year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooly Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 i think i might just joiin ya paisley come on marco get in the spirit ya big humbug i know someone whos gettin coal for xmas mannn does anyone else have relatives like that? fuckkkk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermontdave Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Jesus saved my president! Thank You Jesus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 What's the harm in sharing in another person's excitement? don't go to mass but why can't we say 'you guys have your good time' rather than 'if you flaunt it we'll resent it and you forever' I don't mind seeing the latest in niteclub fashions as much as the next guy. I mean come on. i can't be a hypocrite. to me ther's little difference when it comes down to my pwn personal character. as much as i'm genuinely envious of a lot of guys that have fantastically beautiful cool girlfriends, it makes me happy to see rather than jealous and competitive or somehow acting like a poor loser - which a lot of people do. I understand why christians feel the way about their holidays, but I dont' know much about any other cultures' points of view. and of course we can't forget the times we're able to have because we let go of ourselves and spend a bit? i think it's too bad that we don't all spend it all on the times we're having with each other rather than things to gove to people. imagine the party it'd be? I admit i always write it XXX-Mas. i'm in the same boat as sunshine (which makes me smirk) but I don't mind the religious overtones...they should just do the same for all religions. perhaps volume of acknowledgability would depend on the census, but make sure each community is represented. this should be the same for seasons and understanding of cultures. it's very hard to learn and understand without serious time spent which few people have. any university students want to get a grant to do cultural holiday/season/festivity research and help an area educate its citizens. you'd get paid to learn about people. it's a serious thought for an entrepreneurial venture. and if it works out you could do similar things for other cities. you'd seriously help cultural diversity and positive community reinforcement. wy dont' we all get into the holidays? maybe we'd learn a lot about ourselves. is it so bad to be accepting of other cultures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 I agree 100% with Arcane's first point. Christians really get the short end of the stick in our so-called tolerant society. Christmas, as celebrated in western society, is, at least in theory, a christian celebration. Let 'em flaunt it a little. No skin off my hellbound back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questcequecest? Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 shame on all of you, Jesus is the best gift of all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Make your own sign to add to the bottom... "Jesus is the best gift of all:" "So's your mother" [edit: Just noticed the resolution from the city. Better get vandalising QUICK!] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted December 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by ollie: Christmas, as celebrated in western society, is, at least in theory, a christian celebration. Let 'em flaunt it a little. No skin off my hellbound back. They can flaunt all they want on their own private properties. I don't want to see that shit in public spaces. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pablo Sanchez Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 quote: Originally posted by gentlemonkey: Suggested Course of Action: turn that nativity scene into a disturbingly sexy barnyard scene.. the city councellors cant ignore that! and the real Jesus will get the joke. WOW..... burn baby burn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bONES Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Jesus loves me yes I know, so the Bible tells me so GO Jesus, Go Jesus, you're gonna party, like it's your birthday! and som'n, som'n, like it's your birthday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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