Why do you think so few Canadian Jam-bands break through in the U.S.?

[Im going home Donny]

Our lame assed thieving,corporate ass kissing,Government doesnt appear very interested in supporting Canadian arts at all these days...WTF.

[MamaBurnsy]

The music industry in Canada simply does not allow for this kind of music. They want to be safe, and make albums that play well on the radio on stations such as CHYM. In essence, they have no balls! They would rather make albums with artists such as Jan Arden. As a result of this behaviour, Americans don't take any interest in Canadian jambands. They figure if they can't even break through in Canada, they are not even worth looking at.

To break through into the States, a band has to be very diligent in playing at as many venues as they can, give up their lives as normal people, and have very good connections. It is not what you play, but who you know, and this is very unfortunate.

Another thing is, many band members have started a life here with jobs, wives and husbands, and children, which makes it pretty difficult to have the drive and commitment to "Make It". The bills need to be paid somehow.

PS MoMack has spent 7 years in school(sucker) and has definately spent around $150,000 to do this, especially since he went to Queens

AND

unfortunately our government has bigger fish to fry than Canadian Arts, they can't even get it together with health care and education.

[TimmyB]

On average, 200 debut albums are released per day on the majors in the US.

Albums come out once a week in North America on Tuesday.

I've been going to record stores nearly every Tuesday for fifteen years and are you telling me their are 1,400 debut albums released each Tuesday in the USA? I don't think so.

[Dr. J]

The sad part is, that no matter how many records are released, 99.9% of them will receive litte or no support, and most of the artists will end up being dropped or leaving the label disillusioned and disappointed.

[timouse]

Arts grants aren't like student loans. They're like the 6/49.

post of the day.

[hamilton]

On average' date=' 200 debut albums are released per day on the majors in the US.[/quote']

Albums come out once a week in North America on Tuesday.

I've been going to record stores nearly every Tuesday for fifteen years and are you telling me their are 1,400 debut albums released each Tuesday in the USA? I don't think so.

I think 200 per month is probably closer to accurate.

[dJEd]

i think it's because magazines keep refering to any canadian 'jamband' (which by the way was the word that signaled the begining of the end) as the phish of canada.

"jamband" sucks wicked ass. i hate that term. see earlier post in this thread.

[Velvet]

"are you telling me their are 1,400 debut albums released each Tuesday in the USA"

Yeah, I don't believe it either, but I read it in a book, so I like to throw it around.

[Dr. J]

Whatever the number, it's a lot...too many, in fact. But that's neither here nor there. With the distribution possibilities of the internet and the substantially reduced cost of producing a CD , everybody and their uncle (including Tupelo) is throwing one out there these days.

As a follow-up then, it doesn't help that for every band trying to make a living, there are 10 others that will play the same gig for a couple of beer and a bit of exposure.

The historical means of getting music to the market (record companies & radio stations) is disappearing as we speak and without the traditional means of making a living...record sales & touring....most bands must look at alternative means to pay the bills.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but too many artists are still locked in the old system...waiting to get signed to a record deal...waitng for their big break.... when they really should be putting their energies elsewhere.

Let's face it....not even great music (Jim Bryson) or fairly substantial sales (Wilco) are any guarantee that the company will keep you around...or even that they can do anything for you in the first place.

It really is a different ball game out there nowadays.

I think anyways.

[keither]

Touring, touring, touring.

If any Canadian "jambands' really want to "make it" in this scene, the only way to do that is to play in the States... and play A LOT!

Even the Yankee jammers that have made it toured tirelessly for many years before they made any kind of blip on the radar screen.

You're looking at 200 shows a year, coast-to-coast North, South, East & West... festivals, opening slots, empty rooms, starving, homesick & broke.

Making it in any music scene is all about hard work, sacrifice, persistence... and even then you need a bit of luck too.

In the "jamband" community, it's even more so.

All the bands that are on the top of their game & the scene right now definitely put in the work... just look at how many years, shows and road miles bands like String Cheese, Sound Tribe, moe., Umphrey's & Steve Kimock have worked their asses off.

If Canadian bands really want to succeed, they'll bite the bullet, do the research, get their paperwork in order, fork over the fees and get their asses down South for extended tours criss-crossing the country that really counts in the world of music.

Also... hooking up networks with some of the current American jambands/supporters never hurt either.

I heard a rumour that Stephen Franke may be touring the States with Vorcza Trio in the Fall... so there's one Canadian act that did their homework and are willing to risk taking the plunge.

It's commitment, sacrifice & a serious work ethic... which I'm not sure many of our Canadian acts have... but I love them & their music nonetheless and will continue doing what I can to help them grow.

We have the talent for sure... there just seems to be a little too much apathy towards our bands on the whole, and weak support of live music & live musicians in our country.

Too bad, eh?

[The Chameleon]

I agree with Keither, weak support and apathy are the order of the day in the Canadian live music scene, it seems. When it comes to local talent.

I also agree that you really have to play in the US a lot to make it.

However you can't get booked in the US if no one knows who you are. But you can't be known in the US unless you play in the US, as Americans don't care about Canadian talent unless it is huge. (Hell they've got the real thing at home.)

You also cannot get a booking agent or management to help you bridge this gap in Canada unless you play very main stream music or are a proven commodity (which you can't become without playing in the US)

It is not as easy as simply booking clubs, getting paperwork filled out and going down there. I know from personal experience.

You basically have to tour Canada a lot (which is insanely expensive vs. touring shorter distances in the US), and then maybe you can steal a date in Buffalo or something. The sad part is that no matter how big you are in Canada, you still don't mean shit in the US or world market.

CAN YOU SAY CATCH 22!

[Freeker]

If you're good it will work out. You just gotta pay your dues first.

Tour Canada, play everywhere, get a fanbase. I live in Ontario and I've never seen or heard your band, and I'm an avid music fan who not only goes out to see all kinds of shows but will travel to see something if its good enough. I have no idea who your are, what you sound like or when your next show is and no one i know is talking about you...My point is forget America focus on Canada, pay your dues.

[secondtube]

i hope stephen franke is touring with Vorca Trio...

He deserves it as much as any touring musician today...and has the best attitude of any musician i've seen in a LONG time...

[AdamH]

I find most Jambands (Canadian or otherwise) under-utilize lots of free methods to publicize yourself and your music.

PSA and community events listings on radio stations and their respective websites, URL referrals and pushing media kits and press releases on any and every critic, publication and contact you know of could help further down the road. I'm definitely not totally in the know about these things but the jam community is part of a larger music community: I'm not sure it's a component that can sustain or equally promote up and coming bands as well as pitching yourself and your sound to a broader audience. Get your CD reviewed online, download some free web stats software and see who is coming to your site.

These things take money and alot of time. There are people like Burt Neilson who have been doing this for years, and there are the Kalan Porters who have millions of dollars of marketing support behind them. None of it's particularly easy, and you're right that touring Canada is difficult and expensive. But you've gotta balance touring with other aspects of promotion that don't require a VW bus and 100 tanks of gas.

[bradm]

One thing I'd like to see bands do is try "exchange programs": a headlining Canadian act hooks up with an American act to open for them for some Canadian dates, then the Canadian act opens for the American act for some American dates. It would seem like festivals would be a good place to engage in this kind of "networking", but I don't know how much of it goes on.

Aloha,

Brad

[Dr. J]

My point is forget America focus on Canada, pay your dues.

I agree. Bands such as Blue Rodeo and The Hip (tho not jambands per se) have demonstrated that it's possible to make what I would hope would be a fairly decent living within the boundaries of this country.

Also, as has been pointed out, to do so requires a helluva lot of hard work and good planning. To concentrate only on the former and ignore the latter usually leads to self-destruction.

[Velvet]

If you're good it will work out.

This is supposed to be purple, right?

[gentlemonkey]

Yes the states does have 10 times the population, but they also have 100 times the bands, and musicians who are 100 times better. If you can deal with that fact, and still think you have something to offer, the process begins.

Prove tangiably, through reliable word of mouth, and tapes that you have something going on here (by here I mean Ontario, something beyond just your city), and let promoters down there know.. just like here, the 'scene' there is a network, and they like things of value and they like being the first to have the word on new draws.

Prove you are worth something to them (and yourself, by creating something here), then start to extend your touring circuit south of the border with gig exchanges, and opening slots.. you will get fucked in this process, but get used to it! You'll be down there before you know it..

Being down there doesnt mean you're going to be 'breaking through' though. It means you are trading in everything you have earned in Canada, for a temporary entry position in the American Market. What happens next depends on kicking ass, hard and often with people watching. Being a good person, networking, giving a shit, and making friends everywhere you go.

If you're experienced on the road, you know its 50/50 on the good and bad, the ratio isnt so sweet for an independant jamband trying to 'make it' in the states. But the highs are high.

The toil is ongoing. You really have to love what you're doing, otherwise its not going to happen. But if you believe in what you are doing, anything is possible!

BEST OF LUCK!

ps- canada should always come first. newdeal did tour canada first, not only as newdeal, but also in their original bands. giving them a wealth of knowledge, skill and connections.. theres something to be said for the learning experience.

Edited July 4, 2005 by Guest
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[Dr. J]

The toil is ongoing. You really have to love what you're doing, otherwise its not going to happen. But if you believe in what you are doing, anything is possible!

Amen to that :thumbup:

[Freak By Night]

Yes the states does have 100 times the population, but they also have 100 times the bands, and musicians who are 100 times better.

I think you mean 10 times the population... but the point I really want to make here is: There are no American instrumental rock trios who come close to the musicianship, excitement, energy, and all around greatness that was Canada's nero!

[can-o-phish]

Well said GM...there's really no use in disecting this topic as this just doesn't apply to "jambands" but all music groups and for that matter artists such as painters, authors, sculpters etc...one of the most diverse and competative lifestyles on the planet but thankfully it's out there for us to appreciate and yak about in places such as jambands.

There is little doubt that we would all like to see our friends and favourite local bands "make it" but as long as we're seeing them when we can, talking them up, providing them with a roof, food and vices when they roll into town and just letting them know they're appreciated is something in itself...

[SmoothedShredder]

Yes the states does have 10 times the population, but they also have 100 times the bands, and musicians who are 100 times better. If you can deal with that fact, and still think you have something to offer, the process begins.

Prove tangiably, through reliable word of mouth, and tapes that you have something going on here (by here I mean Ontario, something beyond just your city), and let promoters down there know.. just like here, the 'scene' there is a network, and they like things of value and they like being the first to have the word on new draws.

Prove you are worth something to them (and yourself, by creating something here), then start to extend your touring circuit south of the border with gig exchanges, and opening slots.. you will get fucked in this process, but get used to it! You'll be down there before you know it..

Being down there doesnt mean you're going to be 'breaking through' though. It means you are trading in everything you have earned in Canada, for a temporary entry position in the American Market. What happens next depends on kicking ass, hard and often with people watching. Being a good person, networking, giving a shit, and making friends everywhere you go.

If you're experienced on the road, you know its 50/50 on the good and bad, the ratio isnt so sweet for an independant jamband trying to 'make it' in the states. But the highs are high.

The toil is ongoing. You really have to love what you're doing, otherwise its not going to happen. But if you believe in what you are doing, anything is possible!

BEST OF LUCK!

ps- canada should always come first. newdeal did tour canada first, not only as newdeal, but also in their original bands. giving them a wealth of knowledge, skill and connections.. theres something to be said for the learning experience.

If you could sum that up in a Flag... I'd wave it.

~W

[Dr. J]

Part of the problem is that the old support systems that used to exist for bands...record sales/radio/TV/touring just aren't there these days...especially for new bands.

It's very difficult for a band to develop.There's no time any more (Remember The Stones started out as a cover band...albeit a good one).

Today, the major labels are controlled by shareholders who want a quick and substantial return on their investment. Indie labels have limited resources and are becoming more and more hestitant to take on any artist who doesn't already have some kind of track record.

Any artist who doesn't recognize that the term "music business" is made up of music + business is going to struggle.

[keither]

Good points all-round folks.

I think one of the other more important things that needs to happen falls on Canadian promoters & managers such as myself... not just on the bands themselves.

When we bring up the American talent, a lot of times Canadian promoters aren't using this to their advantage and showcasing Canadian talent in support (though I myself always do this)... so there are no relationships being built up between the Canadian artists & the US bands/management/booking agents.

IMO, networking is definitely the key... not just for the Canadian bands, but for the Canadian promoters who continually book these US acts North of the border.

Building up the business contacts and relationships with our friends South of the border is HUGE to the potential growth of the Canadian scene and the future success of Canadian bands in the US.

I know that at Bonfire, Garaj Mahal & their management were extremely impressed with the Canadian talent, and the way they were treated by us. So, following up on that and continuing to build that relationship is something that falls in my hands, not necessarily the bands'.

Some of the best jams this year involved collaboration between the Canadian & Yankee bands. Fareed sitting in with Themasses & Five Alarm Funk joining in with Garaj for the Saturday late-night jam. The seeds have been sown, now they need nurturing to help them grow.

If the relationship is nurtured, than maybe there's a chance that Themasses, Slammin Jack, Brickhouse, Blue Quarter or any number of Canadian acts may be able to do a US tour in support of Garaj... or one of the other stable of artists under their management/booking agent.

Or with the managers/booking agents knowing & having relationships with the promoters up here, maybe we can have some pull in getting some of our acts onto event lineups at festivals like High Sierra & Bonnaroo. We know some of our acts are good enough to be there, we just need to stress that to our friends down South.

We will definitely be staying in contact and doing whatever is in our power to help these Canadian bands, as any success South of the border will clearly help our cause in Canada.

High Sierra kicks off on Canada Day every year... so it would be brilliant if we could talk with our friends in California and maybe have some kind of Canadian band showcase on Canada Day, eh?

With hard work, commitment & good contacts... anything is possible.

Vive Canada!!

[Kaidy Mae]

High Sierra kicks off on Canada Day every year... so it would be brilliant if we could talk with our friends in California and maybe have some kind of Canadian band showcase on Canada Day, eh?

Awesome idea! However, one year when I was at High Sierra the Hip were on the bill. Yikes! Provided we have some solid talent (who don't rely on their reputation as classic Canadian rockers), this won't blow up in our faces.

Who would you guys want to see at HS representin' Canada (aside from Nero )?