Kung's letter to Exclaim!

[Davey Boy 2.0]

thank you

[AD]

I love everyone!

[TheGoodRev]

Whoa geez. Luke, when I suggested you pitch the nero shows to Exclaim, this isn't exactly what I meant.

I'm just going to echo the sentiments of a few people above. You'll catch more bees with honey in any scenario, man.

I dropped out of high school and spent two years hating the world for being so backwards as to require me to produce an academic degree in order to prove my intellectual worth, something of which I was already more certain than anything.

One day I came to the realization that being contrary was getting me nowhere except into shitty lines of work for less pay than would allow me to move out of my parents' basement. The solution to climbing the social/professional ladder is to be as congenial as you can be, while always retaining your motives and your desires at the forefront of your thinking. In my case, I pulled up my damn socks and went to University, a move that has allowed me to live on my own (through the magic of government loans) while getting that piece of paper that, in theory, will speak to my credibility in the professional world; at the same time, I've become enlightened academically by a great deal that university has to offer; and I manage to keep a schedule that has allowed me to launch (in a very small way) a career as a musician, producer and writer. On the surface that sounds something akin to what some would call 'selling out'; in reality, it is the ideal compromise (except for the $40,000 I'm gonna owe the government ).

The process begins by looking at things (in your case, the music scene) from others' perspectives, with the knowledge that everybody's tastes and opinions are formed by a life experience that is probably far, far different from your own. Compromise, Luke. Play their game while showing them how you are unique, but will fit into their game. Telling them - forcefully - that you plan to change the game (as soon as they give you the opportunity to do so) is not likely something they are interested in.

With this whole episode, you may have soured Exclaim for the time being, but I wouldn't say there's no hope. Part of playing the game means being published as much as you can, anywhere and any time that you can. I know you've been writing for Echo, keep that up. Build a portfolio. Shop yourself to new publications with a friendly e-mail and a strong portfolio.

I did a great deal of writing in Hamilton over the past 6 months and I've slowed things down because I'm playing alot of music now. I've been on the hunt for somebody with broad musical tastes and a drive to write to step up and take over where I'm leaving off, and so far I haven't met anybody here in Hamilton. To want to write about music and to do it well and objectively is important for any scene, and Guelph is lucky to have you. Your job is to be as King Solomon as you can when writing, and when interacting in the scene in general.

Good luck man.

[Velvet]

Hilarious thread.

[Jaimoe]

Slip article or no, I still like Exclaim!, warts and all. I have bigger beefs with the Toronto Star's Ben Rayner and some of those pricks at Now Magazine.

[Patchoulia]

I have bigger beefs with the Toronto Star's Ben Rayner and some of those pricks at Now Magazine.

Hear, hear.

If I ever see Vit Wagner in person, I'm going to kick him in the shins. Legit.

[phorbesie]

AD your original post was good.

[phishtaper]

... and some of those pricks at Now Magazine.

one of the few things that united the UW student body in the 80s was a common sense of WTF? with one, Tim Perlich, who reviewed bands in the Imprint. nothing like being told you are too stupid to appreciate a band. :crazy:

[AD]

AD your original post was good.

Yeah.... I don't really want to get more involved in this topic though. Just seems silly after re-reading some of the things written.

AD

[bouche]

Oh, and Ollie I don't come down to your work and slap the cock out of your mouth.

Ollie's a male prostitute?

[bradm]

Oh' date=' and Ollie I don't come down to your work and slap the cock out of your mouth.[/quote']

Ollie's a male prostitute?

Maybe he's just really lithe and flexible, with really high cubicle dividers?

Aloha,

Brad

[ollie]

Oh' date=' and Ollie I don't come down to your work and slap the cock out of your mouth.[/quote']

Ollie's a male prostitute?

Some days it feels like it.

[zero]

Okay I think we're all going to need to ease of the old kungster here. Dig that I am working split shifts as an apprentice chef and deal with the most intense demanding critiques of every single fucking thing I do down to bruising lettuce, hyper sanitation, height and negative space on plates, design, simplicity. If the chef wants an opinion from you - he'll give it to you. When I know as much about food as they do then I'm entitled to an opinion... Do you get where I'm going here.

Notice how Exclaim! doesn't have an online community of engagement where people interact like this. I truly truly respect all of your deep and probing insights but some of them aren't all that deep. I mean GoodRev I appreciate everything you've said and took the time to read it all and take it all in but that's some pretty basic 'I write for the university paper' type shit. I have a lot to learn from this community, and people like One and A Hair or say Velvet or whoever that I really have a feel for as people mean a great deal, but I guess the same is true in reverse. It has to be.

What I'm learning is people hate artists. Artists hold a mirror up to people. People just don't really care about journalists and if you're trying to be an artistic journalist you can count on a mix of contempt and dismissal. Great combo. I have so many people in this community telling me on a daily basis 'how it's going to be' and how to function as a journalist or a person. Great whoopdeefuckingdoo. Aren't I the person with outlets and a voice that's in the position to tell them how it's going to be? It's just really funny but annoying frankly and a lot of people unconsciously blow smoke up my ass because they want me to forward their creative, cultural, economic, personal or political agendas. There's some usery to it and a whole lot of mentoring. Well thanks going back to the restaurant to get shit on and learn about how dishwashing (scullery) is a culinary foundation.

See how you can't be everything to everybody and how I actually make an effort to despite the fact it's impossible and some of you are actually just dicks.

Look up Antonio Gramsci if you're curious about my signature.

[Birdy]

fuhuck.

sometimes the simplest idea is the most profound.

[ollie]

"My practicality consists in this, in the knowledge that if you beat your head against the wall it is your head which breaks and not the wall... that is my strength, my only strength." - Antonio Gramsci

That's exactly the same conclusion I came to after debating Birdy in the politics forum all afternoon.

[Birdy]

haha BURRRRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!

[MarcO]

What I'm learning is people hate artists. Artists hold a mirror up to people. People just don't really care about journalists and if you're trying to be an artistic journalist you can count on a mix of contempt and dismissal. Great combo. I have so many people in this community telling me on a daily basis 'how it's going to be' and how to function as a journalist or a person. Great whoopdeefuckingdoo. Aren't I the person with outlets and a voice that's in the position to tell them how it's going to be?

Post of the year?

Seriously, aspiring to be an "artistic journalist" is about as endearing as signing up to be the Town Pervert, so more power to you, brother! This is gonna be a tough ride indeed.

What I want to see more of, though, is less analysis and more art. Resist the trend towards being like the musician that just cannot shut up about being a musician.

Perhaps a mere "journalist" - with assignment in hand - will be fascinated by his or her own process, the guts and the glory. The "artistic journalist" will be too caught up in it all to be able to formalize the experience until well after the fact. Is that prosaic or what? I like you. Do you like me?

[Jaimoe]

... and some of those pricks at Now Magazine.

one of the few things that united the UW student body in the 80s was a common sense of WTF? with one' date=' Tim Perlich, who reviewed bands in the Imprint. nothing like being told you are too stupid to appreciate a band. :crazy: [/quote']

Actually, that's the critic I don't care for at Now. He has a philosophy of loving/hailing/preaching the virtues of undiscovered or underground bands only until they gain some sort of recognition, then he abandons said bands when they brush any level of a mainstream audience - see his articles pertaining to From Fiction.

However, I do have respect for music journalists, even the ones I don't like. Ben Rayner has pissed me off on many occasions, but the bastard writes good copy. He is also pretty insightful and bright, if not way too stuck on worshipping show-gazer era bullshit.

Even the Star's Rosie DiManno (someone that has gotten under my skin for decades ) has written some really ballsy and relevant articles recently (see the Politics forum and a topic regarding the Pope's comments towards Islam... or her recent article nailing that fucking idiot murderer in Montreal). Good writers are good writers, even if you don't necessarily agree on their points of view.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Good writers are good writers, even if you don't necessarily agree on their points of view.

Very true. Some of the best things I've hated to read have been by people like P.J. O'Roarke or Christopher Hitchens, who I think are shamelessly callous, abstract, mean, greedy bastards, and funny.

[Deeps]

It's just really funny but annoying frankly and a lot of people unconsciously blow smoke up my ass because they want me to forward their creative, cultural, economic, personal or political agendas. There's some usery to it and a whole lot of mentoring.

I can't help but feel this is somewhat or wholey pointed at me. News is man, I take far more risks trying to understand you than it does me good for my career, and I do it whole heartedly because that's how I am and always have been. I was that kid in school who befriended the kids who weren't "cool" or whatever because I was taught to be kind and thoughtful to everyone. I actually have schizophrenia in my facking family so I'm used to dealing and enjoying being around the truly quirky....fuck I'm half there some days.

So, if the above comment is directed at me and does in fact imply that my friendship is somewhat career oriented, then it is now me who is hurt and maybe we'll chat about that when we see eachother around.

If not then beers on Friday in fact beers on Friday regardless [color:purple]ya dicksmack.

[Jaimoe]

Good writers are good writers' date=' even if you don't necessarily agree on their points of view. [/quote']

Very true. Some of the best things I've hated to read have been by people like P.J. O'Roarke or Christopher Hitchens, who I think are shamelessly callous, abstract, mean, greedy bastards, and funny.

I do like O'Rourke (check that spelling), even though I don't agree with his politics.

One writer that I constantly agree with is The Star's Christopher Hume (architecture and urban critic) - although even Christopher on occasion gets far too preachy and self-righteous, even if he's right.

[MarcO]

well, it was kung, not zero, that wrote the letter. Who's Luke?

[bouche]

regardless [color:purple]ya dicksmack.

If PURPLE is to colour sarcasm, what does the BOLD decoration do?

[allison]

People hate artists? I don't think so.On an instinctive level I think most people react to art as a form of magic and artists as some form of magician-with attendant awe,wonder and delight mixed with a bit of fear.What I do think people hate is the overly sanctimonious "I am an artist "persona that is more often than not fueled by- if not created by the press surrounding that person/group and their work.I know I hate it because it smacks of pretension-which if you ask me is the antithesis of art- but also exclusion- and everybody ,everywhere wants to belong to something.Not the same thing but definetley something.

Two examples to illustrate what Im trying to say.1. I am a painter-and I use the word painter to deliberatley avoid the word artist,I'm paraphrasing Margaret Atwood here(Cats Eye maybe) but I like painter because it implies work,a prosaic use of hands, a normalness somehow where artist implies something overly grand, too ephemereal and esoteric to possibly be me. Anyway,what is interesting is that people who are so called uneducated opinions can often describe the painting better than those whose rarified sense of self demands that they compare it to this movement and that artist-they're descriptions fall very far short of the mark.And those people stand out the most at a show and make other people feel less able to view the art.They feel excluded, unable to exist in the artistic dialogue that is really nothing to do with honestly appreciating something with your eyes and your soul-but more to do with who you know to tear apart or who you know to use as an entrance badge.

2. My next comparison involves Deeps-someone I do not know.His posts generally reveal someone with wit, heart ,enthusiasm and a generosity of spirit.I've heard What the Thunder Said and really enjoyed it. However, if I was introduced to Deeps or the band by way of a journalistic piece that told me who they knew,what scene they were from,all there jamband connections etc I would feel put off.Not because they are artists- but because of a description of a scene as opposed to the music.

So what would artistic journalism be? To me-and no Im not a journalist- it would be something akin to poetry-that is setting up harmonies and dissonances by carefully choosing images and words that led the listener to the wonderful truths BETWEEN words.A well executed review compares to otherartist only to set the similarities anddifferences so that I can glimpse what arena the artist in question might be playing in.Dont tell me who they know or what they do.Tell me how it makes you feel.Tell me how it sounds by describing the artform-not the artist. A journalism of character not ego perhaps?

Sorry for the punctuation...long day.

[TheGoodRev]

On second thought, I'm going to bow out of this one gracefully while I have the chance. Good luck Luke, you're going to need it.

Edited September 20, 2006 by Guest
Make like AD and boogie